The Blueprint or Illmatic

[CityofTreez]

See. This is all a matter of opinion.

Reasonable Doubt, Vol. 2, Vol. 3, and Dynasty are legitimate albums.
Blueprint album is just a cult following. KRS already had a Blueprint, his Girls, Girls, Girls..& The Takeover aren't as strong as people credit. The Doors sample owns the song, and his diss isn't even close to Ether. And I'd rather listen to Motley Crue's track than Jay's. He just dropped the album at the right time, but Songs Cry & Renegade are favorite of mine on there.

Not to mention, Jay-Z may have the worst collaborative material I've ever heard. Dude has two atrocious albums with R.Kelly & Watch the Thrones was just an album with great productions.

My point, ever since 2000 Jay-Z has been a gimmick with a bunch of collaborations, and focusing on himself less. Just look at 2002, Blueprint 2 & Best of Both Worlds showed that Jay-Z needs features because he wasn't what he used to be.

I understand all artists decline with age, but Nas just doesn't look as bad. Dropping 4 albums in a 2 year period and the albums are lacking (like Jay-Z). So while Jay-Z was ****ing around/on his grind, Nas at least didn't embarass himself with lackluster material

Illmatic, It was Written, I Am..., Stillmatic, Lost Tapes, and God's is a 12 year period where Nas delivered. He didn't need features, and gave us himself. Not a feature every song / a great production which outdhined Jay on his own song.

Quality over Quantity argument, and Nas definitely presides over Jay in that instance.

[SNEAKERGEEK-24]

^^^ With regards to what you said, I respect your opinion and everything, however you stated that jay z since 2000 has been a gimmick with collaborations.

I am aware that the 2 r Kelly and watch the throne have been horrible collaborations but If I recall, I'm pretty sure nas also did a whole collaboration album with Damien marley which released in the 2000s and which I didn't care for at all.

Ÿóü isolated 2002 criticizing BP2 and best of both worlds, yet since then he's had 3 quality albums imo -black album ( no features unless ÿóü count pharell), kingdom come which is highly underrated (no rapper features just singers for choruses), and American gangster which had 3 features (Wayne, nas, and beanie sigel).

Nas last album had a Rick Ross feature so I don't think I even have to address that.

Artist do regress with time I agree, and I think jay z does need to retire. On the other hand, I also think nas has regressed. I didn't think anything of life is good, I think this points to what JMB was saying about nas being inconsistent. Obviously it's better than anything than jay z has done since American gangster but it still wasn't anything great to me.

And if you think ether is better than takeover so be it, but I don't think 1 diss record is a fair way to gauge ones career and use it in an argument to see who is better.

[J_M_B]

See. This is all a matter of opinion.

Reasonable Doubt, Vol. 2, Vol. 3, and Dynasty are legitimate albums.
Blueprint album is just a cult following. KRS already had a Blueprint, his Girls, Girls, Girls..& The Takeover aren't as strong as people credit. The Doors sample owns the song, and his diss isn't even close to Ether. And I'd rather listen to Motley Crue's track than Jay's. He just dropped the album at the right time, but Songs Cry & Renegade are favorite of mine on there.

Not to mention, Jay-Z may have the worst collaborative material I've ever heard. Dude has two atrocious albums with R.Kelly & Watch the Thrones was just an album with great productions.

My point, ever since 2000 Jay-Z has been a gimmick with a bunch of collaborations, and focusing on himself less. Just look at 2002, Blueprint 2 & Best of Both Worlds showed that Jay-Z needs features because he wasn't what he used to be.

I understand all artists decline with age, but Nas just doesn't look as bad. Dropping 4 albums in a 2 year period and the albums are lacking (like Jay-Z). So while Jay-Z was ****ing around/on his grind, Nas at least didn't embarass himself with lackluster material

Illmatic, It was Written, I Am..., Stillmatic, Lost Tapes, and God's is a 12 year period where Nas delivered. He didn't need features, and gave us himself. Not a feature every song / a great production which outdhined Jay on his own song.

Quality over Quantity argument, and Nas definitely presides over Jay in that instance.

Well I agree with you that Nas is going stronger than Jay-Z now. I don't think that is even up for debate. Jay-Z fell off, in my opinion, right after 2007.

But I don't fully understand that Jay-Z needed features argument. The Best of Both Worlds was horrible, so we agree there. Blueprint II did have a lot of features, but Jay-Z had 3 very well recieved follow up albums. None of those had anywhere near the amount of features as the Blueprint II had. So I don't understand how you can isolate one solo album from the rest of his work and call it a gimmick.

As for The Blueprint, I know many people had a problem with the name of the album, but is that a legitimate reason to discredit it? Eminem was also the only feature on that CD, so that don't see where he needed other artists to shadow his decline. Takeover and Ether is a totally different argument, but I love them both.

Nas also had quite a few features on a few of his albums. But my point was that Nas has been inconsistent throughout his career. He had Illmatic and followed it up with two very good albums with It Was Written and I Am... , but then came Nastradamus. That's where the inconsistency starts. He rebounds with Stillmatic and had a chance to take back the crown of the east coast with God's Son. It was a solid album, but did it meet expectations? No. Inconsistent. Street's Disciple was solid. But then comes a wave of shaky and lackluster work with Hip Hop Is Dead, Untitled album, and most recently Life Is Good.

I just don't see how that lineup of work is more consistent than Jay-Z's..

[CityofTreez]

I guess that consistency lies in the evolution of their work.

We differ on The Blueprint, various aspects, but it was different. Look at the previous album, The Dynasty and you wonder where are those features? The Dynasty introduced us to every member of the ROC (oschino, young gunz, freeway's first appearance). The Blueprint releases, and no one but Eminem. It was Jay's direction, but you can't help but notice the inconsistency. Then to mention, Blueprint 2 is full of appearances. From a west coast onlooker, I noticed it and didn't like it. Once again, we are dealing with our own opinions. Ether & The Takeover is a debate, but Ether was Ether, and I don't remember Jay taking over afterwards. It's a debate....

Jay had the whole ROC crew, so he had a lot more opportunity to shine. That's another aspect, that's where Jay had an advantage over Nas. He had all of ROC, Def Jam, and even started to branch out even further. Has a feature on Change the Game rmx w/ Dogg Pound. While he had various opportunities, and took that advantage, Nas stuck to the East. Consistently, Nas kept it going with being Nas.

Nas has always been a poet. That's how generalized himself, and how I view his music. He's never really gotten away from that aspect surrounding him. What has Jay-Z categorized himself as? A Hustler (in his earlier material, and as history has shown w/ owning Def Jam). He was a hustler who could translate himself through his music, but now, he's a hustler who just raps about misogenous crap. He lives off of Kanye West, and will continue to do so. Clinging on in a desperate attempt to do what he's always loved doing, but we (as fans) see it amounting to ****.

Meanwhile, Nas is still a poet, and imo, putting out better material and himself. I just can't say Jay-Z is as consistent as Nas in their careers. One has made insane amounts of money, and one could care less due to being so Damn consistent in their evolution.

[hugepatsfan]

The Blueprint for me. More my style of music.