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  1. #946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle4Ever View Post
    Vargas is better than a #4.
    Yeah I missed that. Exactly why I don't like talking to the kid. He over exaggerates everything.

  2. #947
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    You would rather give up a proven closer than a young, erratic pen arm (albeit with upside) and a #4 starter?

    Vargas is going to get murdered this year. Count on it. He wont get the boost from pitching in Safeco anymore.

    I dont think Vargas and Capps gets in done, but Wilhelmsen might. Shouldnt that tell you which is more valuable?
    What makes you think this? There is no data that suggests any offensive numbers, other than HR's, will improve.

    He also saw a ridiculous spike in HR/FB last year, up about 4% to 12.8% If he drops back down closer to his norm (around 8% or 9%), he will be who he normally is.

  3. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattColby View Post
    Yeah I missed that. Exactly why I don't like talking to the kid. He over exaggerates everything.
    It's getting tiresome
    Super Bowl XLVIII Champs



  4. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattColby View Post
    Did u miss the for the most part?
    No I got it. But closers are still pretty valuable.

    Papelbon got 4/$50m
    Bell 3/$27m
    Rivera 1/$10m
    Broxton 3/$21m

    Thats just a few. Teams value them pretty highly.

    For the right hitter, I'd love to see Seattle deal the Bartender. But I don't think Morse is that guy.
    I'm In.



  5. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattColby View Post
    Yeah I missed that. Exactly why I don't like talking to the kid. He over exaggerates everything.
    3.85 ERA, 4.69 FIP, 4.45 xFIP, 0.8 WAR overall.

    5.59 FIP, 4.92 xFIP on the road.

    Not much of an exaggeration. If he wasnt a Mariner, you would want nothing to do with him. Maybe I am just not a massive homer and realize that our player's value is not as high as we want to believe.

    and if you dont want to talk to me, then dont. No one is stopping you.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  6. #951
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle4Ever View Post
    Because Bay used to be one of the best hitters in the league. Then the Mets happened.

    The Bay signing confuses the hell out of me. I just don't see what Z is doing. Then again, he knows his plan and what he is doing more than everyone on this whole website.
    I don't even see that. He had 4 good years. 2005, 2006, 2008 and 2009.
    2008 and 2009 should come with an astrick becuase he was a right hander hitting in Fenway.
    His highest OBP was .406 way back in 05'; and other than is Red Sox years, he hasn't had an OBP above .380 since.

    Even when he was 'good' (and young) he was never one of the best hitters in baseball.
    I honestly don't know what Z sees here...

    Edit: And let's not forget he is literally a black hole in the outfield. With defense as bad as his, he must be producing at the plate to justify sticking him out there.
    Last edited by baseball_is_lif; 12-05-2012 at 10:41 PM.

  7. #952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iansnightout View Post
    No I got it. But closers are still pretty valuable.

    Papelbon got 4/$50m
    Bell 3/$27m
    Rivera 1/$10m
    Broxton 3/$21m

    Thats just a few. Teams value them pretty highly.

    For the right hitter, I'd love to see Seattle deal the Bartender. But I don't think Morse is that guy.
    Yeah they get paid but for some reason the trade value isn't that high.

  8. #953
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    Quote Originally Posted by baseball_is_lif View Post
    What makes you think this? There is no data that suggests any offensive numbers, other than HR's, will improve.

    He also saw a ridiculous spike in HR/FB last year, up about 4% to 12.8% If he drops back down closer to his norm (around 8% or 9%), he will be who he normally is.
    Exactly. He has a home run problem, and Safeco wont hide that as much. When his road numbers are as bad as they are, you should be able to realize what an average pitcher he is.

    I feel like a lot of you dont pay attention to splits, and I think you should. His road numbers tell you how he pitches in 29 parks (on average). Home tells you one park, and in this case a very pitcher friendly park.

    If he is on a decent team in an neutral or hitter friendly park, he is a 4th starter. He is a number 5 for the Nationals, if that.
    Last edited by jej; 12-05-2012 at 10:42 PM.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  9. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    3.85 ERA, 4.69 FIP, 4.45 xFIP, 0.8 WAR overall.

    5.59 FIP, 4.92 xFIP on the road.

    Not much of an exaggeration. If he wasnt a Mariner, you would want nothing to do with him. Maybe I am just not a massive homer and realize that our player's value is not as high as we want to believe.

    and if you dont want to talk to me, then dont. No one is stopping you.
    But he is mariner and he's a fine 2-3 for us til the big threes ready. I don't like him but he keeps us in games and eats up innings.

  10. #955
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    I am not talking about his value to us. If we are trading him, shouldnt we think about his value to other teams?

    When you actually look at the stats, a #4 starter isnt much of an exaggeration. Especially the Nats, on which he is battling for the 5th spot.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  11. #956
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    That's exactly my point, he's more valuable to us then we could fetch on the market for him.

  12. #957
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    Well that's not what you said at first. You acted like me saying he was a 4th starter was some crazy statement, and it's clearly not.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  13. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    I am not talking about his value to us. If we are trading him, shouldnt we think about his value to other teams?

    When you actually look at the stats, a #4 starter isnt much of an exaggeration. Especially the Nats, on which he is battling for the 5th spot.
    Maybe I'm missing something. Who wants to trade him?

    He is more valuable to us than he would be for other teams... I think we all get that.

  14. #959
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    They said they wouldn't trade him and Capps for Morse, an would rather trade Wilhelmsen for him.

    I said he is a #4 starter, which to most teams he is. When talking about his trade value, it doesn't matter what his value to us is. It's about how much the team likes him.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  15. #960
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    Got it.

    AAAANYWAYS, I feel better about us signing Swisher than I did this morning

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