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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Screw it, lets get Butler. Walker and Vargas for him. He is what we need.

    More proven, cheaper, and a better hitter than Upton, and only a year older.
    KC does not want Vargas.

  2. #242
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    Im praying to "god" that the Sox dont trade for Myers. If they do, Butler stays put.

    What do you think KC likes better, Walker and Vargas or someone else for Butler or Lester for Myers?
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWBrodie View Post
    KC does not want Vargas.
    How do you know? Did you talk to Dayton Moore?
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  4. #244
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    No way am i trading Walker to KC unless they add in Gordon and Butler.

    Also Vargas in KC would be a disaster with his contact pitching he would be destroyed in that park.

    I would deal Walker + for Justin Upton though because he not only is a Offensive threat but he can play great Defense.
    Last edited by NateyB24; 11-27-2012 at 11:21 PM.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Screw it, lets get Butler. Walker and Vargas for him. He is what we need.

    More proven, cheaper, and a better hitter than Upton, and only a year older.
    A DH is what we need more so than a right fielder? Disagree strongly.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    How do you know? Did you talk to Dayton Moore?
    They're not going to add another one-year, $9 million dollar pitcher to their rotation the year they trade their best hitter and have already spent more on their rotation than they normally do. I don't need to talk to Dayton Moore to draw that obvious conclusion. At Vargas' price they'd be better off signing Joe Lefty in free agency and keeping their offense together, or trading Myers for a cheaper and much better pitcher.
    Last edited by FWBrodie; 11-27-2012 at 11:29 PM.

  7. #247
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    His bat is what we need. Ill take ****** defense at the least important position on the field for a .850-.900 OPS every year for $8 million a year.

    We havent had success with high upside guys recently. I much prefer guys who have proven they can hit everywhere consistently. Not guys who have one great year, one average year consistently, and havent been able to hit away from home consistently.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWBrodie View Post
    They're not going to add another one-year, $9 million dollar pitcher to their rotation the year they trade their best hitter and have already spent more on their rotation than they normally do. I don't need to talk to Dayton Moore to draw that obvious conclusion.
    Shouldnt that tell you that he is a ****ing idiot? He has spend recklessly on ****** pitchers so far, he might do it again.

    I dont think he will make $9M either, but that wasnt really the point. Walker is the main piece, doesnt matter who the secondary pieces are. But I guess thats typical, attack whatever small detail you find wrong rather than paying attention to the point as a whole

    If you would give up Walker for Upton but not Butler, I think there is a problem with your player evaluation
    Last edited by jej; 11-27-2012 at 11:30 PM.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  9. #249
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    Upton failed to live up to expectations almost immediately. In early-August, Upton jammed his thumb while sliding into a base. The severity of the injury didn’t initially seem to be a big deal, as Upton avoided a DL stint, but reports suggested that it lingered as the season went on. Upton had his thumb drained in late-April after seeing a hand specialist. Upton didn’t blame the thumb for his struggles, instead saying he was simply in a slump. But as the season came to a close, more evidence emerged that Upton was bothered by the injury for a significant chunk of the season. Upton had trouble gripping a bat in May, and also had pain when the would swing, FanGraphs editor Robert Sanchez wrote in a piece for ESPN.com. In that same article, Sanchez mentions that Upton wore a small pad on to protect his thumb until late-August.

    Perhaps not coincidentally, his numbers were significantly better in August and September. Upton rebounded late in the year, and posted his two highest slugging percentages of the season during those months. In early-August, I wrote an article about Upton’s struggles, saying that he needed to start pulling more fly balls. He started to do exactly that, increasing his pulled fly ball percentage from 14% on August 2, to 17.8% by the end of the season. The results were also reflected in his home run totals. On August 2, Upton had only hit four home runs to hit pull side and one home run to center. In the final two months of the year, Upton pulled six home runs and hit three more to center. Once Upton removed the pad around his thumb, he mashed eight home runs the rest of the way, and started to look more like the superstar player owners expected.
    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...22&position=OF

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Shouldnt that tell you that he is a ****ing idiot? He has spend recklessly on ****** pitchers so far, he might do it again.

    I dont think he will make $9M either, but that wasnt really the point. Walker is the main piece, doesnt matter who the secondary pieces are. But I guess thats typical, attack whatever small detail you find wrong rather than paying attention to the point as a whole

    If you would give up Walker for Upton but not Butler, I think there is a problem with your player evaluation
    What player evaluation? None of us can properly evaluate those players. Statistical evaluation, yes. But scouting and developmental evaluation, no way.

    That's where Upton gets his value. He projects as a perennial MVP candidate who hasn't reached his prime yet.
    I'm In.



  11. #251
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    Thats not too encouraging either. He was too proud to talk about the extend of his injury.

    Im not totally against Upton at all. I just dont think he is out best option. Last year isnt really why either. Its the splits. The thumb injury doesnt explain that.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    His bat is what we need. Ill take ****** defense at the least important position on the field for a .850-.900 OPS every year for $8 million a year.

    We havent had success with high upside guys recently. I much prefer guys who have proven they can hit everywhere consistently. Not guys who have one great year, one average year consistently, and havent been able to hit away from home consistently.
    If you thought Butler's bat was good this year, Upton has had two seasons better strictly offensively and he's 16 months younger. Add in that you can mark down +defense and base running in pen and it's a no-brainer. This isn't an "upside guy", this is a star with superstar/mvp upside guy. This kid ***** the bed and puts up 3 WAR. Butler's best season was 3.2. Butler has 400+ more big league plate appearances (70% of a season) than Upton and yet his career 9.9 WAR is laughable next to Upton's 17.1 (again, Butler is over a year older). Butler broke out in his age 27 season. If Upton hasn't broken out yet, holy ****. I'll take Upton's down year 3 WAR along with his massive upside and defensive value over Butler's maxed out 3-4 WAR seasons any day.

    By the way, I never said I wouldn't deal Walker for Butler. If it were up to me, I'd deal for both and let JZ do what he does best and develop another crop of pitchers. But... I think I'd hold Walker unless they offered Gordon.
    Last edited by FWBrodie; 11-28-2012 at 12:49 AM.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Shouldnt that tell you that he is a ****ing idiot? He has spend recklessly on ****** pitchers so far, he might do it again.

    I dont think he will make $9M either, but that wasnt really the point. Walker is the main piece, doesnt matter who the secondary pieces are. But I guess thats typical, attack whatever small detail you find wrong rather than paying attention to the point as a whole

    If you would give up Walker for Upton but not Butler, I think there is a problem with your player evaluation
    My player evaluation huh?

    Evaluate away. Let's hear it scout.

  14. #254
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    It's not about that. I don't doubt he could do what he did before, in the haven that is Chase field. But I think he could come here and **** the bed. If he has a .330 wOBA and 95 wRC+ on the road, and his home numbers take a hit, he isn't an MVP anymore. He would go from one if the best hitters park to one of the worst.

    Butler hits everywhere.

    Sorry, forgot only you can call people out on that kind of stuff. But if you can't see how bad his splits are, or choose to ignore them, maybe you aren't great at evaluation.

    Never claimed to be a scout either. Quit acting likely are all knowing all the time too. Even your buddies are getting annoyed of it.
    Last edited by jej; 11-28-2012 at 12:13 AM.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  15. #255
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    You're clinging to one detail that you don't hear anyone else anywhere concerned with. Upton hits homeruns out of the ballpark, they'd be gone anywhere. There are clearly other factors involved. He stole 15 bases on the road and 3 at home. Are road parks faster? Did he happen to have a bad cold streak on a long road trip? Did he get better medical attention or better sleep at home? Did his coaches have him on a light BP on the road plan due to his soar thumb?

    Chase is a launching pad, and Upton would put up better numbers in a vacuum there, but he does things there and everywhere that other players simply cannot do. His splits last year were not proportionate to the normal effects of Chase Field. Splits happen.

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