Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

[stephkyle7]

I think we have already allowed the pedullum to swing far righyt with Mc Carthy and Hoover.
it has been swinging back ever since, but we had opened pandoras box.
Our,and everybody elses society for that matter is based on a great deal of duplicity.
It is a do as I say ,not as I do world.
what they do NOW. is try to know everything and excersice restraint on how and when they step over our "comfort zone" but acting as if they dont, or thinking they can tolerate the letter of the law is naive IMO.

[GasMan]

first ,
whitsoxfans quote is NOT good(lol). it actually very stupid. (not you personally sir, just the quote).
It makes no sense and it really bugs me when people get all weak in the knees over a "little ditty" that is clever in its structure but ultimately means nothing.
How does sacrificing "some " freedom equate to deserving or not deserving ANYTHING.
That is complete hyperbole and conveluted nonsense.

It is designed to eliminate any basis of debate ,and as such is a denial of liberty IN AND OF ITSELF.
But MAN does it SOUND cool.(lol)

secondly...some of you are missing the point of my analogy.

Is it illegal for the cop to enter? ofcourse.
does he stop the molestation? ofcourse.
does he LIE IN ANYWAY TO MAKE SURE THE CASE STICKS? OFCOURSE.
"i heard a call for help"
I heard a struggle"
" I smelled Marijuana"
There are a million ways to subvert the letter of our laws and people do it endlessly every day.

Doesn't make it right. It is not up to the cop to decide what's right and wrong. What if he decides that he doesn't like you because your kid got chosen over his kid to be the starting QB on the football team so he decides to plant evidence that you broke a law? Far fetched? Yup, but start going down that path and the rule of law loses its value. Of course these things happen but we shouldn't accept them, we should fight against them.

[stephkyle7]

Its not far fetched at all GM(lol).
they do it all day.
I went to lunch one day wearing my raiders jersey ,I was in Irvine which is an affluent suburb in OC.
the point is I stood out in my dark shades,jersey and hat...some cop drove by and stop his car in the street, called me over from the restuarnt front and started asking me questions.
I told him I was having lunch with a friend...is that ok with you?
He llaunched into all kinds of B.S. about crime in that neighborhood(yeah right...in IRVINE(lol) and Fitting the description of a perp, and how I shouldnt have an attitude...blah, blah, blah...he say a guy in a Raiders jersey, profiled me and went fishing.

In the "ghetto" they call the police "one time" becasue if you look at them one time they will call that suspicious behaviour and pull your car over or stop and shake you down if your walking.
In Chicago a few years back a p[atrol car was in an accident and when it went for repairs they found a Kilo of Coke the cops had hidden in the dash they were using to plant on people they wanted to hem up.
Our law enforcement agencies break the law routinely.
so does our Government.

[dbroncos78087]

It sounds like we agree on the nature of exerting the power. I expect the rules to be setup so power isn't overexerted and fully concede that it does get overexerted. I just don't think we should change the way the rules are written (and enforced) because people are going to try to break them. Otherwise we should apply that in all areas. There really is no point for any rules if that is going to be our guideline for setting up and applying rules.

[americaspasttim]

Its not far fetched at all GM(lol).
they do it all day.
I went to lunch one day wearing my raiders jersey ,I was in Irvine which is an affluent suburb in OC.
the point is I stood out in my dark shades,jersey and hat...some cop drove by and stop his car in the street, called me over from the restuarnt front and started asking me questions.
I told him I was having lunch with a friend...is that ok with you?
He llaunched into all kinds of B.S. about crime in that neighborhood(yeah right...in IRVINE(lol) and Fitting the description of a perp, and how I shouldnt have an attitude...blah, blah, blah...he say a guy in a Raiders jersey, profiled me and went fishing.

In the "ghetto" they call the police "one time" becasue if you look at them one time they will call that suspicious behaviour and pull your car over or stop and shake you down if your walking.
In Chicago a few years back a p[atrol car was in an accident and when it went for repairs they found a Kilo of Coke the cops had hidden in the dash they were using to plant on people they wanted to hem up.
Our law enforcement agencies break the law routinely.
so does our Government.

No they don't, and if they do it is absolutely not acceptable. Suggesting that is in anyway appropriate for an officer to lie is reprehensible...

[whitesoxfan83]

For one this crap is scary and Whitesox's quote is good. And I am frightened by the attitude of I have nothing to hide so i'm ok with it. I have nothing to really hide either but there is no way this should be allowed.

Now on APT's and DB's convo, yes the cop should do something just to stop the molestation. But the charges are going to have to be dropped due to illegal **** by the Alaska wildlife police department.

Jesus Christ had nothing to hide...

That's just one example of many... this idea that i'm innocent so nothing will happen to me is outrageous.

History is littered with innocent people who were killed because of mistakes, misunderstandings, or downright drunkenness of power. Innocence is totally irrelevant...

[jrice9]

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[stephkyle7]

No they don't, and if they do it is absolutely not acceptable. Suggesting that is in anyway appropriate for an officer to lie is reprehensible...

Some in here know from my previous posts that my father was a District Attorney(elected).
There were dozens of Officers that the DDAs(deputy district attorneys) would regularly drop the cases they presented because they KNEW they lied, they knew they planted evidence,its not like in the movies where the DAs office will go all Rambo trying to GET bad Police.What happens is that they lose crediblilty amongst the prosecutors,they dont trust them and as a consequence they reject a lot of the complaints that are submitted.

But going back and forh on this is a little pointless.
If some believe that Law enforcement and government follow the Laws as they apply to them, your welcome to believe that.
I have seen too much, to be so gulible.
the Police are corrupt, the Government regularly breaks privacy laws...and theres no Santa Claus Either.

[stephkyle7]

Oh and Im not saying its right...Im saying it is routine.
Human Beings have a propensity to put our self interetsts ahead of our integrity.

WE deny we were speeding if we can.
We buckle up when we "see" an Officer near by(if we had forgotten when we got in the car).
We accept points on tests that we guessed on the answer.
We make deals with drug dealing revolutionaries so we can funnel arms to the middle east.
Acting as if this is not how things are doesnt change them.

[GasMan]

Oh and Im not saying its right...Im saying it is routine.
Human Beings have a propensity to put our self interetsts ahead of our integrity.

WE deny we were speeding if we can.
We buckle up when we "see" an Officer near by(if we had forgotten when we got in the car).
We accept points on tests that we guessed on the answer.
We make deals with drug dealing revolutionaries so we can funnel arms to the middle east.
Acting as if this is not how things are doesnt change them.

But knowing what you know, you should be more concerned about this further erosion of liberties than anyone. To lie there and take it because you're not doing anything wrong is the exact policy that allows this behavior to continue to be acceptable. I don't believe that we can roll back corruption to extinction, but unless we continue to be vocal opposition to these policies, they will only get worse.

[americaspasttim]

Oh and Im not saying its right...Im saying it is routine.
Human Beings have a propensity to put our self interetsts ahead of our integrity.

WE deny we were speeding if we can.
We buckle up when we "see" an Officer near by(if we had forgotten when we got in the car).
We accept points on tests that we guessed on the answer.
We make deals with drug dealing revolutionaries so we can funnel arms to the middle east.
Acting as if this is not how things are doesnt change them.

1) You did say it was right.
2) It is not routine.
3) "My father told 40 years ago he heard etc..." stories don't cut it on the internet...

[stephkyle7]

another scholar appaerntly.
No I didnt say it was alright...I said it is routine..I said it happens all the time,I said that those of you who put your unrequited faith in ANYTHING are being a little Naive.
I said that circumstances dictate the degree to which we allow Rules or laws to guide us.this is a fact.Research it if you dont think so..as a matter of fact Ill help you out...here.....http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...ymgia88HqkXNEA

In sharing my "father said" story I was submitting personal experience.
You can choose to believe what you want, I dont care.
Not only was I told by the DDAs themselves, as I often attended trials becasue My father wanted to groom me as a lawyer, later in my life I had friends who became police officers who would actually tell me some of the Fd up stuff they did to inner city Minorities.Ive smoked weed with cops, before there was any medical marijuanna laws. Ive Gambled with cops, which Im pretty sure is illegal in Ca.Ive been to Mexico with cops who enjoyed a prostitute or two.Dont they have a ethics Rule that applies to conduct anywhere?
How about those secret service guys in Columbia? I guess that was the first time for all of them Huh?
I seem to remember them refering to Rodney King on the radio call as a NHI issue. when questioned under oath they indicated that NHI was a police acronym for NO HUMAN INVOLVED which meant it was a Black person.
I suppose having a mentality that dehumanizes people NEVER leads to violating their rights,Right?IM sure that making sure you are following rules is primary in their approach, when they are dealing with Non humans(lol).

Lastly, I find it very curious, that the staunchest supporters of the "government is out to get us" niche, is equally willing to believe that the titans of Industry are our friends(LOL).
What is a large corporation that controls vast wealth and influence,if not a defacto government agency? They are worse,actually because the redress process is conveluted, they can burry their tracks more efficiently and quite frankly do all the time as well.
so becareful of the government getting too powerful, but Buisnesses? oh no, leave them alone...no rules, no regulations, no oversite..they are the GOOD GUYS.....(hilarious).

[D Roses Bulls]

Remember when **** like this was a CONSPIRACY and a lot of people said "this will never happened" well.... it's happening.

[stephkyle7]

LOL, when was that?
You mean when Bush started it after 9/11?
Or only now that a D is the pres...LOL.

[GasMan]

another scholar appaerntly.
No I didnt say it was alright...I said it is routine..I said it happens all the time,I said that those of you who put your unrequited faith in ANYTHING are being a little Naive.
I said that circumstances dictate the degree to which we allow Rules or laws to guide us.this is a fact.Research it if you dont think so..as a matter of fact Ill help you out...here.....http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...ymgia88HqkXNEA

In sharing my "father said" story I was submitting personal experience.
You can choose to believe what you want, I dont care.
Not only was I told by the DDAs themselves, as I often attended trials becasue My father wanted to groom me as a lawyer, later in my life I had friends who became police officers who would actually tell me some of the Fd up stuff they did to inner city Minorities.Ive smoked weed with cops, before there was any medical marijuanna laws. Ive Gambled with cops, which Im pretty sure is illegal in Ca.Ive been to Mexico with cops who enjoyed a prostitute or two.Dont they have a ethics Rule that applies to conduct anywhere?
How about those secret service guys in Columbia? I guess that was the first time for all of them Huh?
I seem to remember them refering to Rodney King on the radio call as a NHI issue. when questioned under oath they indicated that NHI was a police acronym for NO HUMAN INVOLVED which meant it was a Black person.
I suppose having a mentality that dehumanizes people NEVER leads to violating their rights,Right?IM sure that making sure you are following rules is primary in their approach, when they are dealing with Non humans(lol).

Lastly, I find it very curious, that the staunchest supporters of the "government is out to get us" niche, is equally willing to believe that the titans of Industry are our friends(LOL).
What is a large corporation that controls vast wealth and influence,if not a defacto government agency? They are worse,actually because the redress process is conveluted, they can burry their tracks more efficiently and quite frankly do all the time as well.
so becareful of the government getting too powerful, but Buisnesses? oh no, leave them alone...no rules, no regulations, no oversite..they are the GOOD GUYS.....(hilarious).

Did you not say that you don't care because you don't have anything to hide? Then when people responded you moderated/changed your stance. Now you attempting to change the subject by going after corporate bad guys which no one has been arguing for.

Do you stand by the statement that you don't care about this topic because you don't have anything to hide and they're doing it anyways?