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  1. #781
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    Thought 492: What about possibly moving Logan Watkins, Chris Rusin and Steve Clevenger to the Royals for Luke Hochevar and Aaron Crow? The Royals may need SP, but they can certainly entertain the idea of dealing from their 'pen (Collins, Holland, Herrera, Coleman and of course Crow all are better than 80% of the MLB RP arms let alone our own) to help facilitate a deal to rid themselves of Hochevar's contract. Clevenger is at the very least a mid-solid LH back-up to the most underrated player in baseball, Salvador Perez while Watkins likely makes that team out of ST as a super sub with an outside chance of platooning with Johnny Giavotella at 2B. Hochevar gets a fresh start to flash his talent but inevitably fall on his face while the real prize is adding an emerging talent in the 'pen that may actually have a chance to transition back to starting in the NL.

  2. #782
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    I think its a little ridiculous to try and assert at this juncture just what Miami wants. I think Loria already got what he really wanted - precisely what kind of moves they're looking to make or what type of player they'd want to acquire now is anyone's guess.


    Jill Garvey <3

  3. #783
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    I would like to see the following for the remainder of the offseason:
    Trade Garza + to KC for Gordon +
    Sign either Marcum, Sanchez, or E; Jackson
    Sign Victorino or Pagan (2 or 3 years max)
    IMO those moves make the Cubs competitive next year and really do not hurt the minor league system or the future growth of the team at all, with the exception being they probably would not be a bottom 5 team in baseball next year. They would have a line up of:
    DeJesus
    Castro
    Rizzo
    Soriano
    Gordon-3rd base
    Victorino/Pagan
    Castillo/Navarro
    Barney

    The rotation would also be decent, especially once Visciano gets into the rotation. However if doesn't have the arm strength to start he will make an excellent relief pitcher. So it is a win either way with him. If they get a deal done with Barney that is okay too. I am sure they can find someone to bat 8th and provide a solid glove at second if they get a good return for Barney. When Soriano or DeJesus is gone Gordon can move back to the outfield if one of the young 3rd base prospects is ready.
    Last edited by rcal10; 11-29-2012 at 07:11 AM.

  4. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    I would like to see the following for the remainder of the offseason:
    Trade Garza + to KC for Gordon +
    Sign either Marcum, Sanchez, or E; Jackson
    Sign Victorino or Pagan (2 or 3 years max)
    IMO those moves make the Cubs competitive next year and really do not hurt the minor league system or the future growth of the team at all, with the exception being they probably would not be a bottom 5 team in baseball next year. They would have a line up of:
    DeJesus
    Castro
    Rizzo
    Soriano
    Gordon-3rd base
    Victorino/Pagan
    Castillo/Navarro
    Barney

    The rotation would also be decent, especially once Visciano gets into the rotation. However if doesn't have the arm strength to start he will make an excellent relief pitcher. So it is a win either way with him. If they get a deal done with Barney that is okay too. I am sure they can find someone to bat 8th and provide a solid glove at second if they get a good return for Barney. When Soriano or DeJesus is gone Gordon can move back to the outfield if one of the young 3rd base prospects is ready.
    I like the Gordon idea ...this is who I want at 3b long term he is a good defensive 3rd basemen only moved to open up the spot for Eminiem.
    BUTTERFLIES AND RAINBOWS!!!!! JP611 Just called me an ecstasy user!!!! WTF!!!

    Welcome Tyler Kolek or Brady Aiken or Carlos Rodon if not one of them say hello To Alex Jackson.

  5. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABE32 View Post
    I like the Gordon idea ...this is who I want at 3b long term he is a good defensive 3rd basemen only moved to open up the spot for Eminiem.
    Yep. And if you move Garza you have to get another decent starter. That is why Marcum/Sanchez/E. Jackson come into play. I am not sure about Victorino or Pagan for center, but they are the best of the rest out there. And the Cubs do need a center fielder. I guess Bourn would work too, but then the line up would have to have him leading off with DeJesus 6th or something like that. My point is, they are not that far away from being a solid team next year and they can get there without giving up any minor league talent and without blocking any potential talent. Hell, if B. Jackson could handle major league pitching I would even be okay without the Pagan/Victorino signing. But I am not sure he can handle it.

  6. #786
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    that's under the assumption that KC would trade Butler for Garza framework...
    Save the kittens, ignore sbs' posts
    Red Sox hater since 10/2011

    It is anyway, not anyways.

  7. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by excillon View Post
    Uh no he's not. Consistently better ERA, Higher WAR, 2 years younger almost, more durable, has actually broken 200 innings, more strikeouts (but not much), and lefty.

    All the statistics and advanced stuff favor my side on this one. It is close, but Lannan has a little higher ceiling/flip value if he gets it back together, vs. Feldman who's on a one year and unless he does great, will not bring even close to a Malholm return back.
    Except FIP and xFIP, which are kind of the most important ones (moreso the latter) for a pitcher.

    And you're looking at the wrong WAR. Fangraphs WAR > BR WAR when it comes to pitching.
    Last edited by DavidH; 11-29-2012 at 09:05 AM.

  8. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by excillon View Post
    Only way I see this happening is if we get someone else as well. Escobar is not the prize. Miami wants a Power bat, maybe, just maybe:

    Soriano, Barney, Bjax or Vitters and cash to Miami for Escobar, Morrison, and Nolasco. That would be ****ing sweet.
    Morrison has done nothing the last two years but be terrible.

  9. #789
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidH View Post
    Except FIP and xFIP, which are kind of the most important ones (moreso the latter) for a pitcher.

    Until next year when a completely different alphabet soup DIPS measure comes out with .02 better correlation to next year's runs allowed, even if it says completely different things about the pitchers involved. Then xFIP will be worthless.

  10. #790
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    Quote Originally Posted by gocubs2118 View Post
    Barney for Porcello is a trade I'd make.
    Detroit blockbuster would be nice....Barney, Garza and Marmol for Castellanos, Porcello, Smyly...

  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    Until next year when a completely different alphabet soup DIPS measure comes out with .02 better correlation to next year's runs allowed, even if it says completely different things about the pitchers involved. Then xFIP will be worthless.
    Congrats, you've figured out how science works.

  12. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assman22 View Post
    Detroit blockbuster would be nice....Barney, Garza and Marmol for Castellanos, Porcello, Smyly...
    after garza proves himself we will get a better haul even if at the deadline.
    BUTTERFLIES AND RAINBOWS!!!!! JP611 Just called me an ecstasy user!!!! WTF!!!

    Welcome Tyler Kolek or Brady Aiken or Carlos Rodon if not one of them say hello To Alex Jackson.

  13. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by terencem View Post
    Congrats, you've figured out how science works.
    I've figured out how baseball fans' interpretation of science works, at least.

  14. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    Until next year when a completely different alphabet soup DIPS measure comes out with .02 better correlation to next year's runs allowed, even if it says completely different things about the pitchers involved. Then xFIP will be worthless.
    REMEMBER THE VORP or sumthin.

  15. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    Until next year when a completely different alphabet soup DIPS measure comes out with .02 better correlation to next year's runs allowed, even if it says completely different things about the pitchers involved. Then xFIP will be worthless.
    That's silly. None of the advanced metrics are worthless.

    Now a lot of the old ones...(still aren't worthless but are damn near it)

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