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Thread: Screw the NHL

  1. #46
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    Fehr needs to find an network where he can explain the situation because I feel a lot of fans are just misinformed when it comes to these negotiations.
    CNN NBC or ESPN interview to address certain issues.
    The NHL has used NHL.com to publically offer a new CBA without giving details of existing contracts or players salaries. Both parties agreed negotiations were to be private. It was a public relations scheme that fooled a lot of fans.
    Players have compromised on every issue proposed to them by the NHL other then existing contracts. Large contracts were signed just weeks for the CBA expired.
    After the previous lockout, owners can't talk publically about negotiations without being fined by the NHL & the majority don't even have a say in the negotiations without bullied by hardline owners.
    There is a few Billionaire owners in the NHL willing to take this lockout as long as it needs to go so they can get whatever they want. There is not an negotiation going on.
    Last edited by kevin13697; 12-02-2012 at 09:30 AM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfrap View Post
    Personally, I think the NHL would be better served to drop the salary cap stuff totally, the each team spend what they want which means the salary demands of the CBA are moot so teams can get away with spending enough to make a profit. yes, you may only have 4-6 teams that can buy any player and dominate the playoffs, but guess what... everybody gets to make their money. If an owner will make money if his salary for the team is 20 million, let him spend just that... if the leafs can build a 100 million team and make money, more power to them. At least then each owner is in control of their bottom line again.
    Thats what it was like before the previous lockout. It allows the players and their agents to extort contracts that are beyond what they are worth out of the owners. Also would help to create a league that is top heavy which you mention, but that lowers the potential revenue for the lower end teams making the gap between the two even larger.

    There is a reason the NBA and NFL don't have a system like that and why there was a season lost in the NHL. Soccer in Europe has system without a salary cap and they have started to put more restrictions on teams because the system fails.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Goal View Post
    How can you say its the players fault. Did Leopold offer ridiculous contracts
    in July ? The owners make offers that inflate their costs and then complain
    that the players are overpaid. . no one is forcing them to make
    these offers but if one of these guys offered me a similar deal Id
    turn it down because people might say Im greedy ya right.
    This is a misconception. What the owners spend is directly correlated with the CBA split. They aren't driving salaries out of control, salaries have gone exactly where they were supposed to based on the last CBA.

    Give them a bigger percentage of revenues and those salaries aren't so big.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    This is a misconception. What the owners spend is directly correlated with the CBA split. They aren't driving salaries out of control, salaries have gone exactly where they were supposed to based on the last CBA.

    Give them a bigger percentage of revenues and those salaries aren't so big.
    thats true but the problem is a team like Toronto could double the salary cap to 140 million and still make a profit while teams like Phoenix and Columbus can't afford to pay a team 70 million.
    So either drop the salary cap or share revenue.
    Players are willing to drop the salary to 50% along with contract clauses proposed by the owners but they want existing contract because the teams with financial struggles didn't sign contracts they couldn't afford & the teams that are profitable shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of that.
    You can't sign a bunch of contracts just before the CBA expires & then say your not going to pay them while your league revenue is high. Then be unwilling to negotiate while locking out the league again.
    Last edited by kevin13697; 12-02-2012 at 01:25 PM.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    thats true but the problem is a team like Toronto could double the salary cap to 140 million and still make a profit while teams like Phoenix and Columbus can't afford to pay a team 70 million.
    So either drop the salary cap or share revenue.
    Players are willing to drop the salary to 50% along with contract clauses proposed by the owners but they want existing contract because the teams with financial struggles didn't sign contracts they couldn't afford & the teams that are profitable shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of that.
    You can't sign a bunch of contracts just before the CBA expires & then say your not going to pay them while your league revenue is high. Then be unwilling to negotiate while locking out the league again.
    They're not unwilling to negotiate. I don't know why that is constantly being repeated. They wanted to start negotiations during last season but Fehr refused.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    They're not unwilling to negotiate. I don't know why that is constantly being repeated. They wanted to start negotiations during last season but Fehr refused.
    what have the owners done to compromise with the players?
    Last edited by kevin13697; 12-02-2012 at 01:54 PM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    Thats what it was like before the previous lockout. It allows the players and their agents to extort contracts that are beyond what they are worth out of the owners. Also would help to create a league that is top heavy which you mention, but that lowers the potential revenue for the lower end teams making the gap between the two even larger.

    There is a reason the NBA and NFL don't have a system like that and why there was a season lost in the NHL. Soccer in Europe has system without a salary cap and they have started to put more restrictions on teams because the system fails.
    Over the past 11 years, nine different teams have won the World Series making a lie out of the other false narrative that sports need a salary cap to survive.
    Yet in the past dozen years, with the most restrictive spending rules in sports, three NFL teams: the Steelers, Giants and Patriots have accounted for 11 of the 24 Super Bowl participants and seven titles. It's the same deal in the NBA, in which the Lakers, Spurs and Heat have won 11 of the past 14 titles.
    The salary cap has less to do with the financial infrastructure of professional sports than something far more visceral, far less scientific. I'm talking about the anti-union, anti-worker sentiment that's growing in this country.
    It is as successful selling myth as cutting taxes on the rich to create jobs. maybe not as successful lol
    Last edited by kevin13697; 12-02-2012 at 02:13 PM.

  8. #53
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    Hopefully Dolan can help like he did with the NBA lockout. I mean he must be pissed, because the Rangers are the team suffering probably the most from the lockout. The team is a valid Cup contender, acquired one of the game's superstars in Nash in the summer and Lundqvist has been playing out of his mind for the past 2 years. That sucks the most about this lockout really - losing a year of Lundqvist.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    Hopefully Dolan can help like he did with the NBA lockout. I mean he must be pissed, because the Rangers are the team suffering probably the most from the lockout. The team is a valid Cup contender, acquired one of the game's superstars in Nash in the summer and Lundqvist has been playing out of his mind for the past 2 years. That sucks the most about this lockout really - losing a year of Lundqvist.
    Not to mention one of the three biggest earners in the league that has to support teams that are failing. Dolan over most would know that some of those lesser teams are costing him and many more a lot of money. The Elephant in the room is the misplacement of NHL franchises into markets that can't sustain them. Move 3-4 teams and you've just solved the money problems between their continual loss of revenue and the increased revenue of the team when it moves it would be millions. It's time for Gary to admit failure in some markets and move teams to Quebec, Ontario, Seattle etc where teams will succeed and stop spending bad money on teams that will never succeed. I realize RIM has slowed down and Jim Baillsaille isn't there anymore but Gary had a golden opportunity to move a team to Ontario for free but instead he was as stubborn as he always is and denied Jim B's request out of stubborness.
    Last edited by bsi; 12-02-2012 at 04:15 PM.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by armchairgm View Post
    Players need to realize owners are there to make money not make the players money. Think about it the players are just employees. Now think about us the fans we have jobs are our bosses out to make us rich or themselves?? Sooner players realize this the better owners will wait however long it takes there not hurting the players are.
    Sports are different in that respect than traditional businesses..... In sports the athletes are the product. If they fired all the players and hired a bunch of guys off the street would you watch? Hell no. But McDonald's or Wal-Mart can go out and fire everybody and replace them the next day because the employees are just there to maintain products.

  11. #56
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    Betman's has to go 3 lockouts and another missed season he is the worst

  12. #57
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    Bettman = AHole

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    Over the past 11 years, nine different teams have won the World Series making a lie out of the other false narrative that sports need a salary cap to survive.
    Yet in the past dozen years, with the most restrictive spending rules in sports, three NFL teams: the Steelers, Giants and Patriots have accounted for 11 of the 24 Super Bowl participants and seven titles. It's the same deal in the NBA, in which the Lakers, Spurs and Heat have won 11 of the past 14 titles.
    The salary cap has less to do with the financial infrastructure of professional sports than something far more visceral, far less scientific. I'm talking about the anti-union, anti-worker sentiment that's growing in this country.
    It is as successful selling myth as cutting taxes on the rich to create jobs. maybe not as successful lol
    I don't think salary caps are necesary for a sport to survive but there is a use for them. One of the reasons that baseball gets away without one is because no individual player or even players dominates the game like the other 3 sports while its also more random in getting players. Its easier for a team with a small budget to compete in the MLB as compared to other sports. I don't think it can seriously be said that teams in the other sports could compete with one half of the budget of other teams let alone one quarter.

    You were also very selective in how you presented the numbers for finals appearances and titles to make it appear as if there were significantly more parity in the MLB. Last 12 years;

    MLB - 9 teams won, 14 made the finals
    NFL - 8 teams won, 15 made the finals
    NBA - 6 teams won, 11 made the finals
    NHL - 10 teams won, 16 made the finals (parity becomes more apparent after salary cap)

    As for the anti-worker comments I think it would hold more weight if we were talking about the support workers and not the players helping to keep them out of work because they are holding out to guarentee the top end players full contracts.

  14. #59
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    The players should go into this meeting with 2 proposals to the NHL. Proposal #1, 50/50 split of revenues with all existing contracts honored in full. If the league doesn't like it then offer#2 is a 50/50 split with no contracts being valid. Every player in the league is unrestricted. The league can't just cherry pick a few bad contracts and decide not to pay them.
    I think a lot of owners have mismanaged themselves into almost needing to blow up the whole thing and start over anyway. They might as well just admit it and do it now.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan View Post
    The players should go into this meeting with 2 proposals to the NHL. Proposal #1, 50/50 split of revenues with all existing contracts honored in full. If the league doesn't like it then offer#2 is a 50/50 split with no contracts being valid. Every player in the league is unrestricted. The league can't just cherry pick a few bad contracts and decide not to pay them.
    I think a lot of owners have mismanaged themselves into almost needing to blow up the whole thing and start over anyway. They might as well just admit it and do it now.
    Proposal #1 was already proposed to the owners & they wouldn't even look at it. It was counter proposal #3 back in october.

    How is proposal #2 fair for the players?
    not only do they lose their contracts & now will have to resign a contract with a largely reduced salary with shorter length. They also will have the threat of having to move themselves & their families.

    They should offer to void all contracts but have no salary cap. Owner will have a fresh start of managing their teams & player playing overseas can stay there if they chose to. However owners could set restrictions on the new contracts.
    Last edited by kevin13697; 12-03-2012 at 03:59 PM.

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