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Thread: Screw the NHL

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    I don't disagree with that but it's an opinion that both the NHL and PA would absolutely hate.

    I'm not saying the exchange rate wasn't an issue but it didn't stop the other Canadian teams. If you move a team to Quebec, they basically have to be in the top 15 in revenue to generate a profit. I wouldn't bank on that. I don't see relocation as a long term solution to the problem.
    The other Canadian teams at the time were Vancouver, Montreal, Winnipeg, Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, and Quebec City.

    To review: Vancouver, Montreal, and Toronto are our 3 major cities and easily support the national sport. Calgary is oil-rich, Edmonton at the time was talent rich, one of the best dynasties in the history of the game. Winnipeg was a small market and couldn't make up for the deflated dollar, and Quebec was the Columbus Blue Jackets of its day, not to mention they had the stigma of being in a province who were trying to separate and famously Eric Lindros refused to play for them. All in all, the two smaller markets in Canada at the time couldn't manage those obstacles. None of that really has any bearing on today. Quebec, like Winnipeg, would EMBRACE hockey like you wouldn't believe. You need to understand how big the rivalry between Quebec City and Montreal is; that rivalry alone would drive immense ticket sales.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    does that make my statement a lie? in regards to moving a team to a large gambling city
    I agree with not moving a team to vegas but it does make your statement that they are the most underpaid pro athletes a lie.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYSPORTS98 View Post
    Don't bother talking economics with him. He dismissed the exchange rate, claimed the Canadian teams were losing money and thinks Texas is like South America/Miami. The exchange rate did greatly effect Quebec's decision, the candian teams are profitable, Dallas is close to Mexico and profitable, Seattle is building a new arena, Indy is growing at a tremendous rate, Hartford lost a team due to no tax break and not b/c of nonfat support while Vegas doesn't have a team b/c of the fear of organized crime on the door step. He has NO IDEA and no solution besides this pie in the sky delusion of brand awareness in awful markets while failing to comprehend brand equity.
    That's actually a total lie. I said a rise in player salaries had a major impact on why those teams folded. I asked if I could call OKC and San Antonio Mexico because you called Florida, South America.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYSPORTS98 View Post
    Don't bother talking economics with him. He dismissed the exchange rate, claimed the Canadian teams were losing money and thinks Texas is like South America/Miami. The exchange rate did greatly effect Quebec's decision, the candian teams are profitable, Dallas is close to Mexico and profitable, Seattle is building a new arena, Indy is growing at a tremendous rate, Hartford lost a team due to no tax break and not b/c of nonfat support while Vegas doesn't have a team b/c of the fear of organized crime on the door step. He has NO IDEA and no solution besides this pie in the sky delusion of brand awareness in awful markets while failing to comprehend brand equity.
    Pretty much agree with that summary.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    The other Canadian teams at the time were Vancouver, Montreal, Winnipeg, Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, and Quebec City.

    To review: Vancouver, Montreal, and Toronto are our 3 major cities and easily support the national sport. Calgary is oil-rich, Edmonton at the time was talent rich, one of the best dynasties in the history of the game. Winnipeg was a small market and couldn't make up for the deflated dollar, and Quebec was the Columbus Blue Jackets of its day, not to mention they had the stigma of being in a province who were trying to separate and famously Eric Lindros refused to play for them. All in all, the two smaller markets in Canada at the time couldn't manage those obstacles. None of that really has any bearing on today. Quebec, like Winnipeg, would EMBRACE hockey like you wouldn't believe. You need to understand how big the rivalry between Quebec City and Montreal is; that rivalry alone would drive immense ticket sales.
    Ok, so let's say Quebec can be a destination to relocate to. I'm still skeptical but for argument's sake, I'll cave on that city. Where are the other 9-13 markets?

    I say this because someone said the owners were morons and operating in all the wrong cities. Moving to just one city in Canada doesn't reverse that.

    My point wasn't to sit here and argue about one particular city, the point was that you need a bunch of cities to relocate to if owners are going to stop losing money. One city doesn't cut it.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Pretty much agree with that summary.
    That's coming from a person that thinks Vegas is a better market than Miami.

    But I'm the one that doesn't know economics...
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    I agree with not moving a team to vegas but it does make your statement that they are the most underpaid pro athletes a lie.
    lowest salary or however u want to say it, having so many foreign players.
    I wouldn't want the league to turn into a conspiracy theory.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    lowest salary or however u want to say it, having so many foreign players.
    I wouldn't want the league to turn into a conspiracy theory.
    The NBA players receive 50%. The NFL players receive less than 50%. Last year, the NHL players received 57%.

    They've actually been some of the highest paid players over the years. It's a lie.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    Ok, so let's say Quebec can be a destination to relocate to. I'm still skeptical but for argument's sake, I'll cave on that city. Where are the other 9-13 markets?

    I say this because someone said the owners were morons and operating in all the wrong cities. Moving to just one city in Canada doesn't reverse that.

    My point wasn't to sit here and argue about one particular city, the point was that you need a bunch of cities to relocate to if owners are going to stop losing money. One city doesn't cut it.
    Both Hamilton and Que City would work. Contract the rest because they destroy the quality of the game anyway with the diluted talent (and that includes mediocre coaches).

    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    That's coming from a person that thinks Vegas is a better market than Miami.

    But I'm the one that doesn't know economics...
    Seems to me that Vegas is not out of the running for economic reasons but because no pro league wants the stigma of crime or gambling associated with it.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Both Hamilton and Que City would work. Contract the rest because they destroy the quality of the game anyway with the diluted talent (and that includes mediocre coaches).
    For arguments sake, I'll say 12 teams are losing money. We know it's somewhere in that range. So you're going to move two teams and then cut out the other 10?

    1. The NHL brand just took a major dive.

    2. You just lost several hundreds of jobs.

    3. The playoffs just went down the crapper, imo. The 16 team format is what makes the NHL playoffs so great.

    Seems to me that Vegas is not out of the running for economic reasons but because no pro league wants the stigma of crime or gambling associated with it.
    Either way, it's not a viable destination.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  11. #161
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    There isn't a real solution to the NHL's profitability problem except contraction and that isn't going to happen. There are at least 8 teams that shouldn't be in the market they are in, and realistically there are maybe 4 cities to move them to that would support a team properly. That leaves 4 teams in limbo and while fans wouldn't miss them, neither the league nor the union would support contraction. We are stuck with a bunch of teams losing money. Probably with the league owning at least a couple of them eventually. It doesn't matter what % of HRR the league gets, they will still lose money in these markets unless meaningful revenue sharing is put in and that isn't a perfect fix either.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    That's actually a total lie. I said a rise in player salaries had a major impact on why those teams folded. I asked if I could call OKC and San Antonio Mexico because you called Florida, South America.
    Obviously you can't comprehend the exchange rate and are stuck on this delusion of players salaries being the issue. It's also obvious you've never opened you eyes or been to South Beach or San Antonio b/c can't tell the difference which is extreme. You simply look South and draw for a delusion EVERYBODY North of Boca refers to the South as South America. http://miami.cbslocal.com/2011/08/19...rida-presence/
    Last edited by NYSPORTS98; 12-08-2012 at 07:13 PM.
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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYSPORTS98 View Post
    Obviously you can't comprehend the exchange rate and are stuck on this delusion of players salaries being the issue. It's also obvious you've never opened you eyes or been to South Beach or San Antonio b/c can't tell the difference which is extreme. You simply look South and draw for a delusion EVERYBODY is North of Boca refers to the South as South America. http://miami.cbslocal.com/2011/08/19...rida-presence/
    You mean little Israel?

    Florida was 21st in attendance. Not completely terrible. There's a lot of people with money down there. You can have a team there if they put a better product on the ice. They've never really had a star player to sell to the fans with the exception of a few years with Bure.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    For arguments sake, I'll say 12 teams are losing money. We know it's somewhere in that range. So you're going to move two teams and then cut out the other 10?

    1. The NHL brand just took a major dive.

    2. You just lost several hundreds of jobs.

    3. The playoffs just went down the crapper, imo. The 16 team format is what makes the NHL playoffs so great.
    1. maybe lockouts aren't such a great idea after all huh Gary?

    2. see above

    3. I could do with less of everything and more talent in select cities

    Their product is diluted and it sucks. I'd rather have 20 teams in good locations than 30 teams that suck.

    Either way, it's not a viable destination.
    Argumentum Ad Nauseum - you just keep repeating your conclusion even when it's been soundly disproven.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    1. maybe lockouts aren't such a great idea after all huh Gary?

    2. see above

    3. I could do with less of everything and more talent in select cities

    Their product is diluted and it sucks. I'd rather have 20 teams in good locations than 30 teams that suck.



    Argumentum Ad Nauseum - you just keep repeating your conclusion even when it's been soundly disproven.
    What are you talking about? I asked him to show me a list of cities where struggling franchises could relocate to.

    You realize that pointing out that Vegas isn't an option because of gambling is just another reason why Vegas can't be on that list?
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

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