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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    The last time we opened the wallet in 06, we looked pretty good on paper as well. This time some people are saying we're contenders? What makes this team different than 06?

    06 Notables - Glaus, Overbay, Rios, Wells, Ryan, B. Molina, Hinkse, Catalanatto, Hill, Hillebrand, Halladay, Burnett, Lilly, Accardo, Spieir....
    Wait, that team looked good on paper? Wow. Not at all. I mean I want the Jays to win too but come on, that team looked on paper like it looked in the final standings: medium.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombtista View Post
    What Rotation is better?

    JJ
    Morrow
    Romero
    Buerhle
    Happ

    or

    Halladay
    Burnett
    Marcum
    McGowan
    Litsch

    I think its our current one.
    That 2nd rotation was one of the nastiest Blue Jays staff I'd ever seen as a Jays fan. I'd wager to say that the 2008 version would rival today's Tampa Bay staff. Arnsberg handled the staff very well that year.

    Heh...when you have 4 guys in your starting rotation that have taken no-hitters very deep into ballgames that's pretty impressive.

    Cito Gaston took over that 2008 team from John Gibbons with a record of 35-40 and went 51-36 down the stretch. Not quite as good as the 1989 season when he went 76-48 from May 15th. Coincidentally it was John Farrell who was pitching (and lost) against the Jays the same day Cito Gaston was hired in 1989 LOL!!!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Wait, that team looked good on paper? Wow. Not at all. I mean I want the Jays to win too but come on, that team looked on paper like it looked in the final standings: medium.
    finished with 87 wins that year and 2nd place? thats not really medium but still not good enough for playoffs. cant deny there was a lot of hype with those signings at the time. thats was a good lineup considering what guys like glaus and overbay were supposed to bring to the team, while expecting guys like vdub and rios to breakout.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLeays View Post
    That 2nd rotation was one of the nastiest Blue Jays staff I'd ever seen as a Jays fan. I'd wager to say that the 2008 version would rival today's Tampa Bay staff. Arnsberg handled the staff very well that year.
    Well that's the problem isn't it? How many here have actually seen a winning Blue Jays team?

    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    finished with 87 wins that year and 2nd place? thats not really medium but still not good enough for playoffs. cant deny there was a lot of hype with those signings at the time. thats was a good lineup considering what guys like glaus and overbay were supposed to bring to the team, while expecting guys like vdub and rios to breakout.
    IIRC correctly the Red Sox collapsed in September. The second place was meaningless at the time and proved to be meaningless the next year. I don't think any of the last 20 years of Jays history is exactly a milestone for measuring success. It was really sad watching the mediocrity being cheered as if it was anything more. Those were bleak years where we cheered a Red Sox fold as if it was our accomplishment.

  5. #35
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    The Jays missed what would have been a wild card slot by 3 games in 1986.

    You can't compare them yet since you're comparing paper to results.

    2013's team is significantly faster and has more balanced power, but likely won't hit for as high an average as 2006. Still, it should easily score more runs.

    The rotation is stronger by one starter. The Jays' top 3 in 2006 was a decent top 3. But in 2013, the ace of the 3 years prior has been bumped to #4 in the rotation (unofficially.) That's impressive. And it could get stronger still depending on what AA pulls off from here on. We know he's looking for another starter. But this will easily be a stronger rotation.

    The bullpen should have similar results.

    And defensively, this team should be stronger overall in the OF and at third.

    2012 is just a better looking team, even comparing paper to paper.

    The only thing that could kill it is injury and poor health, and that's a big concern. But as someone else pointed out earlier, the division is lacking a powerhouse this year. It won't be a one horse race.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by scaramantula View Post
    hillandbrand, hill, rios, hinske, burnette, none of these guys would even be considered for this team, even if they were still at there '06 level


    Did you even watch baseball in 2006? This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmradioguy View Post
    But in 2013, the ace of the 3 years prior has been bumped to #4 in the rotation (unofficially.) That's impressive.
    Why is that impressive?? So now we have 3 out of 4 pitchers last year who had really bad seasons and ON PAPER we've all decided the success they'll have next year.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
    Burnett was actually a good pitcher when he was healthy during his tenure with the Jays. He had amazing peripherals and put together a great season in 2008. In actuality, his contract was not that "bad",
    Burnett was an inconsistant pitcher who could only string together wins when the season didn't matter anymore.

    The difference between 2006 and this year is the pitching. In 2006 we had a magnificent batting order. If we're healthy this year then this batting order could contend with 2006's. In 2006 we lacked pitching. If Romero regains his form then we have the best rotation in the AL East.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    Josh freakin Towers and John freakin Gibbons... smh
    John Gibbons was a good manager for this team. In fact he has prolly been the best manager over the past 12 years of this franchise. And by good i mean he made all the right (logical) moves a manager should make. Instead of going with "gut" or "feel" he put his best players in a position to succeed. Managing shouldn't be re-inventing the wheel. You have you matchups and you go with them and hope for the best.
    Last edited by JaysFan87; 11-19-2012 at 11:43 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombtista View Post
    What Rotation is better?

    JJ
    Morrow
    Romero
    Buerhle
    Happ

    or

    Halladay
    Burnett
    Marcum
    McGowan
    Litsch

    I think its our current one.
    1) Why are we talking about the 2008 pitching, when this thread is comparing the 2006 team?
    The lineups are different...

    2)
    2008:

    Halladay was the best pitcher in 2008
    Burnett had a pretty decent season with 231 Ks
    Litsch had sophomore luck
    McGowan was ok with only 19 starts
    Marcum pitched decent


    2012:

    JJ: We really don't know what he's going to be like. We're hoping he returns to his ace form, after getting used to his repaired arm last season
    Morrow: Showed glimpses of being the Jays ace at season's end.
    Buerhle: A work horse. If he stays, he'll give our BP a huge break every 5 games.
    Romero: Hopefully last season was a roadbump. He's shown that he can be a top pitcher in the East.
    Happ: Had some solid starts before he went down with a foot injury.


    Conclusion: If I were to choose, I'd pick the 2012 rotation (current). The top 4 of the rotation are all top tier pitchers, compared to 2008, where only Halladay/Burnett were good.

    And by the way, those pants, they belong to my dad.And they're not really pants,
    they're Lederhosen



  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaysFan87 View Post
    John Gibbons was a good manager for this team. In fact he has prolly been the best manager over the past 12 years of this franchise. And by good i mean he made all the right (logical) moves a manager should make. Instead of going with "gut" or "feel" he put his best players in a position to succeed. Managing shouldn't be re-inventing the wheel. You have you matchups and you go with them and hope for the best.
    Just adding perspective ok? But if that's the best over the past 12 years, it's no wonder Jays fans have decided they've won the world series after the Marlins dumped salary.

    We have no gauge for success. At all.


    We really need to be a bit skeptical don't you guys think?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Why is that impressive?? So now we have 3 out of 4 pitchers last year who had really bad seasons and ON PAPER we've all decided the success they'll have next year.
    Well as I said, we essentialy have 3 possible #1 pitchers on this staff.

    We just have to hope Josh Johnson and Morrow stay healthy while Romero goes back to the pitcher he was prior to last year.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Just adding perspective ok? But if that's the best over the past 12 years, it's no wonder Jays fans have decided they've won the world series after the Marlins dumped salary.

    We have no gauge for success. At all.


    We really need to be a bit skeptical don't you guys think?
    I was around for the early 90's this is the best team on paper since that time. We are only missing a bonafide ace, but we may alreay have 1, maybe 2.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Burnett was an inconsistant pitcher who could only string together wins when the season didn't matter anymore.

    The difference between 2006 and this year is the pitching. In 2006 we had a magnificent batting order. If we're healthy this year then this batting order could contend with 2006's. In 2006 we lacked pitching. If Romero regains his form then we have the best rotation in the AL East.
    Inconsistent? The only thing he was inconsistent at was staying healthy. Other than that, his peripherals from 2006-2008 were pretty consistent. The only difference was that he pitched a full year and had 18 wins in 2008 which is indicative of how the team performed infront of him... not the pitcher. If wins are the basis of your argument, than there is no argument to be as its a horrible way of judging a pitchers performance (its a team stat). If Burnett was healthy throughout his tenure, his contract would have been a steal.
    Last edited by Farsight; 11-20-2012 at 12:02 AM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Just adding perspective ok? But if that's the best over the past 12 years, it's no wonder Jays fans have decided they've won the world series after the Marlins dumped salary.

    We have no gauge for success. At all.


    We really need to be a bit skeptical don't you guys think?
    I dont think you can find a credible source that has said he was a poor manager. Its not fans who say this but also ppl who have significant more knowledge than you and I.
    Last edited by JaysFan87; 11-20-2012 at 12:03 AM.

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