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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krylian View Post
    On paper, I like the 2012 team better...but come this time next year, who knows what kind of season we will have seen.
    This.

    Reason for optimism in 2006 was we thought we were a starter and bat away from contention in what was at the time a 2-team race.

    Reason for optimism now is a combination of:

    - The fact that the division is more up for grabs than ever before (in the last 10-12 years), with Tampa and Baltimore showing its possible to breakthrough, and the Red Sox in decline.

    - Excitement over acquiring pieces we sorely lacked, being rotation depth and bench depth. Not to mention guys who can wreak havoc on the base paths.

    - The playoff drought that we've experienced

    - The fact that we still have alot of good farm talent

    But as people above have rightfully said, you need to play the games. As a Jays fan, I too prefer the 2012 team on paper far beyond the 2006 team.

  2. #17
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    Josh freakin Towers and John freakin Gibbons... smh

  3. #18
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    I remember when we signed AJ and BJ (I was posting on another forum at that time)

    The general feeling amongst the fans around the league then was that we overpaid for AJ and screwed the pitching market for years to come (which we kinda did) Still we were dubbed as one of if not the best 1-2 with roy and aj, and our pen had been performing consistently well for years but with no real closer so BJ did fit a big need.

    Now you can argue JJ is better than AJ was for us and that Reyes respresents a bigger upgrade than BJ did but we just don't know yet. Now JJ should be at least on par with AJ, but Ryan was RIDICULOUS for us in 2006. Does Reyes equate to a 3.5 WAR increase (the number BJ put up in 06) on Yunel Escobar? Now there's Mark Buehrle and Emilio Bonifacio but going into his age 34 season even a guy as consistent as Buerhle has been is a potential risk, and Bonifacio represents fairly minor impact. Buerhle is a big key here and if he pitches as he always does, he along with Bonifacio should be better than Glaus/Overbay were that year.

    Then there's Melky, who the hell knows what's gonna happen there. But he is comparable in terms of value with what Benji Molina was seen as.

    Maicer Izturis = Edgardo Alfonzo

    So to me we're really not much further along than we were in 06 as far as our Major League roster. BUT we are miles ahead as far as prospects and surplus assets.

    I believe more needs to happen before we can be considered true division favorites, but the offseason has barely started and we have the prospects teams want so there is definitely reason to feel better about now than 2006.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bombtista View Post
    What Rotation is better?

    JJ
    Morrow
    Romero
    Buerhle
    Happ

    or

    Halladay
    Burnett
    Marcum
    McGowan
    Litsch

    I think its our current one.
    Clearly it's the 2008 rotation. That pitching staff gave up the least runs in the entire league, and no 2nd place wasnt close (38 runs). Playing against power houses in TB, BOS, and NYY. Heck even Baltimore had a decent offense. That rotation gave us elite production back then.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    Josh freakin Towers and John freakin Gibbons... smh
    Oh yeah and John Gibbons was our manager

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
    How are you comparing them? Based on potential? or Actual performance?. Because if we are basing it off performance I'd take our 2008 pitching rotation over this one as they were the best staff in all of baseball that year (best ERA, 2nd best FIP, and 3rd best xFIP) Also, there are way too many question marks in our current one. Based on potential, id still take the 2008 rotation of Halladay, Burnett, and a "rising star in McGowan". Moreover, Marcum became a middle of the rotation starter. For me its an easy answer
    That's nice and all but the Jays when were pitching so well couldn't score enough runs. That shouldn't be too much of an issue this year.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Yorker View Post
    Clearly it's the 2008 rotation. That pitching staff gave up the least runs in the entire league, and no 2nd place wasnt close (38 runs). Playing against power houses in TB, BOS, and NYY. Heck even Baltimore had a decent offense. That rotation gave us elite production back then.
    My uncle was trying to argue to me after that season that the reason we didn't make the playoffs was because we didn't have good enough pitching

  8. #23
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    I'm still trying to figure out what one has to do with the other. If anyone wants to explain feel free. It's an entirely different roster playing in an entirely different run environment playing against entirely different competition.
    2013

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate View Post
    That's nice and all but the Jays when were pitching so well couldn't score enough runs. That shouldn't be too much of an issue this year.
    What are you talking about? My answer was in response to "which rotation was better". Runs scored on offence has nothing to do with how well a rotation performed. I really dont know what you are trying to argue. Maybe the 2013 team will be better than the 2008 team, but that rotation posted "elite" numbers that season

  10. #25
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    hillandbrand, hill, rios, hinske, burnette, none of these guys would even be considered for this team, even if they were still at there '06 level
    Blue Jays 2013 world champs, just watch

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
    What are you talking about? My answer was in response to "which rotation was better". Runs scored on offence has nothing to do with how well a rotation performed. I really dont know what you are trying to argue. Maybe the 2013 team will be better than the 2008 team, but that rotation posted "elite" numbers that season
    hes saying that even though they my have had a better rotation there offense couldnt score enough runs to get the wins, which is not an issue with our top 5 offense this year (even with the possibly weaker rotation)
    Blue Jays 2013 world champs, just watch

  12. #27
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    the red sox were at the hight of thier "dynasty" and the yankees were still right there (having won 97 games) with them, both teams have slipped and there is another wildcard. plus we don't have scrubs like russ adams playing everyday. I also think our top-tier talent is better now,,joey bats, ee and reyes > glaus and 2006 vernon.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by scaramantula View Post
    hes saying that even though they my have had a better rotation there offense couldnt score enough runs to get the wins, which is not an issue with our top 5 offense this year (even with the possibly weaker rotation)
    We are assuming that it will be a top 5 offense. On paper it looks to be forming that way, but nothings for certain. Still though, im aware of that. My answer was in response to a question on pitching, not offense

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    I hate this revisionist history from the media and fans. AJ Burnett and BJ Ryan were not huge prizes.

    BJ Ryan had one single good season before becoming a member of the Blue Jays and he was a closer. Bullpen players are not impact players. Playing a single inning once every couple of days is really overblown in terms of impact.

    AJ Burnett had 2 reasonably good seasons before becoming a member of Blue Jays, and neither were amazing.

    It speaks volumes about Rogers and the Blue Jays, up until this past month, that these were the standards by which to judge all off-season acquisitions during their tenure of ownership.

    In the grand scheme of things, it was really an unremarkable off-season in the winter of 2006.
    Speaking of bullpen guys and their one inning impact

    Back in 92, we effectively played a 7 inning baseball game when we had Tom terminator Henke and Duane Ward
    Last edited by superfio; 11-19-2012 at 11:21 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
    We are assuming that it will be a top 5 offense. On paper it looks to be forming that way, but nothings for certain. Still though, im aware of that. My answer was in response to a question on pitching, not offense
    True, but the odds of the Blue Jays having a good offence are pretty good.

    We haven't had a power duo like EE and Bautista since Delgado and Shawn Green. In terms of power i'll take EE and Bautista over those 2 (though Delgado is still the best overall hiter)

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