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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Why is that impressive?? So now we have 3 out of 4 pitchers last year who had really bad seasons and ON PAPER we've all decided the success they'll have next year.
    Last time I checked, Morrow, Buehrle and Johnson had good seasons last year.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Just adding perspective ok? But if that's the best over the past 12 years, it's no wonder Jays fans have decided they've won the world series after the Marlins dumped salary.

    We have no gauge for success. At all.


    We really need to be a bit skeptical don't you guys think?
    You are not being Skeptical, you are being extremely pestimitic.

    Also, you can't compare the Raptors to the Blue Jays. The Raptors have 0 success while the Blue Jays have won 2 world series with a couple of penants.

    Basketball is a team game where 1 player can have a dramatic difference, the raptors have none of those players.

    Baseball is an individual sport, and the Blue Jays have a bunch of Superstar quality players.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
    Inconsistent? The only thing he was inconsistent at was staying healthy. Other than that, his peripherals from 2006-2008 were pretty consistent. The only difference was that he pitched a full year and had 18 wins in 2008 which is indicative of how the team performed infront of him... not the pitcher. If wins are the basis of your argument, than there is no argument to be as its a horrible way of judging a pitchers performance (its a team stat). If Burnett was healthy throughout his tenure, his contract would have been a steal.
    Inconsistant meaninng he coul throw a no hitter 1 day an give up 6 runs the next.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate View Post
    Inconsistant meaninng he coul throw a no hitter 1 day an give up 6 runs the next.
    Yes, some games he gave up a lot of runs, than others he never allowed any. However, throughout his tenure as a jay his peripherals were consistently good. The only difference was in 2008 he played a full season...

  5. #50
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    interesting question

    Halladay >> Johnson
    Burnett = Morrow
    Lilly = Buerhle
    Chacin < Romero
    Towers < Happ and friends

    Lineup

    C Zaun = Buck
    1b Overbay < Encarnasion
    2b Hill = Bonifacio/Isturis
    3b Glaus > Lawrie
    LF Rios < Bautista
    CF Wells > Rasmus
    RF Catalanato < Cabrera
    DH Johnson = Lind

    BP

    CL Ryan > Janssen
    SU Downs/Frasor/Shoenwise < Oliver/Delabar/Santos
    (missing a few relievers)

    The 2013 team seems better than the 2006 86 win team but how much?

  6. #51
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    Opinions will differ but seriously why we talking about 2006? That was a good team and unfortunately was up against even better teams. 2013 squad looks good on paper and I'm hoping they perform. The one bonus for us now is the competition has gotten a lot worse in our division and we have the extra shot at playoffs.

  7. #52
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    Scratch that, if John gibbons IS our new manager, this is a trip through memory lane.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
    Last time I checked, Morrow, Buehrle and Johnson had good seasons last year.
    Let's say they did. What basis do we have for assuming that they will excel in Toronto? What fundamental base does Toronto have to build on (other than hope and some raw talent) to think that this is a team that is going to break through?

    These are fair questions. Much better than being one more cheerleader and agreeing with everyone when it is most likely that the Jays will continue to struggle. AA did an admirable thing for a few years, trying to build a contender from within. Now he has rolled the dice, and we will have to see. Because that is what you have to do when you roll the dice.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate View Post
    You are not being Skeptical, you are being extremely pestimitic.

    Also, you can't compare the Raptors to the Blue Jays. The Raptors have 0 success while the Blue Jays have won 2 world series with a couple of penants.

    Basketball is a team game where 1 player can have a dramatic difference, the raptors have none of those players.

    Baseball is an individual sport, and the Blue Jays have a bunch of Superstar quality players.
    I'm talking about hype, not the sport itself. I"m talking about fan behaviour.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Let's say they did. What basis do we have for assuming that they will excel in Toronto? What fundamental base does Toronto have to build on (other than hope and some raw talent) to think that this is a team that is going to break through?

    These are fair questions. Much better than being one more cheerleader and agreeing with everyone when it is most likely that the Jays will continue to struggle. AA did an admirable thing for a few years, trying to build a contender from within. Now he has rolled the dice, and we will have to see. Because that is what you have to do when you roll the dice.
    Exactly which team in the AL East is gonna blow Toronto away this year?

    You ask a question, and so am I.

  11. #56
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    lol now john gibbons is the manager hahahahah

    iroooony

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfio View Post
    Speaking of bullpen guys and their one inning impact

    Back in 92, we effectively played a 7 inning baseball game when we had Tom terminator Henke and Duane Ward
    Neat. Thanks for the breaking story.

    Meanwhile it doesn't negate anything that I said about how a free agent bullpen signing is not going to make your team a contender. It is the most insignificant and overrated spot on the entire roster, unless of course you're counting utility bench players.

    I'm not saying bullpens aren't important, but a single member of the bullpen is never going move a team significantly close to being a contender. To think BJ Ryan was going to do that was & is ridiculous.

  13. #58
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    Hahaha! Now we'll find out for sure which team was better now that Gibby is back.

    Jays '13

  14. #59
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    the difference is the yanks weaker and there is an additional playoff spot and rogers seems posed to spend to win.
    Beeston: "we should be able to support a $140-$150 million payroll and that's the direction that we're headed."
    1.27.11

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Let's say they did.
    This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a fact. You said 3/4 pitchers had bad seasons, when 3 of them had fairly strong seasons.

    You can dismiss an opinion (which you tried to do) - but this isn't an opinion. It's a fact. It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, there's evidence to show all 3 had strong seasons.


    What basis do we have for assuming that they will excel in Toronto?
    Let's start with the fact that Beuhrle hasn't had a bad season in his career and he's pitched in a tougher park than Rogers Centre during his career with Chicago. He's never really had a bad season - his worst season was a 95 ERA+ and the past 3 years he's been at 108.

    Josh Johnson is a dominant arm - the question with him is health, not talent.

    As for Morrow, he's coming off a breakout season, and the question is how many innings he'll throw. Another talented arm.

    There's a fairly long list of reasons and evidence to show the players acquired, be it Reyes, Beuhrle and Johnson - all have a long history of success throughout their career. The question isn't so much about performance here, but health.

    What fundamental base does Toronto have to build on (other than hope and some raw talent) to think that this is a team that is going to break through?
    They've got 2 elite hitters in EE (assuming the breakout is legit, which on the surface it looks like) and Bautista. They've got a talented 3B in Lawrie, who even with a league average bat is a plus player thanks to his D. They've now added Reyes who is an above average SS with a higher ceiling than Reyes, Cabrera who's coming off several strong seasons (and is now moving to a more favourable hitting environment). The lineup looks fairly strong. We can agree that a Johnson/Beuhrle/Morrow trio at the top is fairly strong, and Romero/Happ are solid guys to have at the 4/5 spot. The bullpen has been improved.

    There's a fairly solid base to build on.

    These are fair questions.
    Agreed, but there's also a way to go about asking that questions that doesn't come across as arrogant or baiting, as you've done in multiple threads.

    Much better than being one more cheerleader and agreeing with everyone when it is most likely that the Jays will continue to struggle.
    While that's your opinion, others have pointed out the risks involved with several of the players and the team itself heading into 2013. There's obvious question marks - Bautista's wrist, Johnson/Morrow's health, the question of Romero's talent, EE's breakthrough, the enigmas of Rogers/Lincoln. But acknowledging those question marks, there's also the chance for this club to have a shot at the playoffs.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

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