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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Ankiel always had a wild side, in '99 he averaged 4.1 walks per game in the minors and in 2000 he averaged 4.6 in the majors.
    That's no so bad, and he was striking out a ton because his stuff was great. He should have been able to be an above average starter at least, not a complete bust.

    Also another example is Julio Teheran. Even though he's still young, he was very highly touted and he had the stats to match. So far he's been ineffective in the big leagues and now even AAA.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    That's no so bad, and he was striking out a ton because his stuff was great. He should have been able to be an above average starter at least, not a complete bust.

    Also another example is Julio Teheran. Even though he's still young, he was very highly touted and he had the stats to match. So far he's been ineffective in the big leagues and now even AAA.
    It's not pinpoint control either.

    I can think of quite a few "can't miss" hitting prospects that have failed in the big leagues.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    It's not pinpoint control either.

    I can think of quite a few "can't miss" hitting prospects that have failed in the big leagues.
    Well that was the argument we were having with WrightStuff last night.

    He was attributing most to all pitching prospects who don't make it to injury in the minors and nothing else.

    Like a pitcher learning to harness his stuff (or having the stuff), having the mental makeup, and making adjustments as he faced better hitters had nothing to do with his rate of progression and possible success in the majors.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-26-2012 at 03:20 PM.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    It's not pinpoint control either.

    I can think of quite a few "can't miss" hitting prospects that have failed in the big leagues.
    Sure, but more pitchers than hitters for sure.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Well that was the argument we were having with WrightStuff last night.

    He was attributing most to all pitching prospects who don't make it to injury in the minors and nothing else.

    Like a pitcher learning to harness his stuff (or having the stuff), having the mental makeup, and making adjustments as he faced better hitters had nothing to do with his rate of progression and possible success in the majors.
    That's absurd.

    I still wouldn't trade Wheeler for Myers.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Sure, but more pitchers than hitters for sure.
    That's debatable.

    Here's BP top 20 in 2008
    1. Jay Bruce, of, Reds
    2. Clay Buchholz, rhp, Red Sox
    3. Evan Longoria, 3b, Rays
    4. Joba Chamberlain, rhp, Yankees
    5. Clayton Kershaw, lhp, Dodgers
    6. David Price, lhp, Rays
    7. Travis Snider, of, Blue Jays
    8. Colby Rasmus, of, Cardinals
    9. Homer Bailey, rhp, Reds
    10. Cameron Maybin, of, Marlins
    11. Rick Porcello, rhp, Tigers
    12. Matt Wieters, c, Orioles
    13. Franklin Morales, lhp, Rockies
    14. Andy LaRoche, 3b, Dodgers
    15. Wade Davis, rhp, Rays
    16. Jacoby Ellsbury, of, Red Sox
    17. Jordan Schafer, of, Braves
    18. Desmond Jennings, of, Rays
    19. Mike Moustakas, ss, Royals
    20. Jarrod Parker, rhp, Diamondbacks


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  7. #172
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    Didn't the Angels have two mashers in the top 10 playing SS and 3B who are busts.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    That's debatable.

    Here's BP top 20 in 2008
    1. Jay Bruce, of, Reds
    2. Clay Buchholz, rhp, Red Sox
    3. Evan Longoria, 3b, Rays
    4. Joba Chamberlain, rhp, Yankees
    5. Clayton Kershaw, lhp, Dodgers
    6. David Price, lhp, Rays
    7. Travis Snider, of, Blue Jays
    8. Colby Rasmus, of, Cardinals
    9. Homer Bailey, rhp, Reds
    10. Cameron Maybin, of, Marlins
    11. Rick Porcello, rhp, Tigers
    12. Matt Wieters, c, Orioles
    13. Franklin Morales, lhp, Rockies
    14. Andy LaRoche, 3b, Dodgers
    15. Wade Davis, rhp, Rays
    16. Jacoby Ellsbury, of, Red Sox
    17. Jordan Schafer, of, Braves
    18. Desmond Jennings, of, Rays
    19. Mike Moustakas, ss, Royals
    20. Jarrod Parker, rhp, Diamondbacks
    Well you are cherry-picking from one season only, but yes, in the Top 20 it's very close. Beyond that, pitchers are far more risky than hitters. To me, 6 of 9 those pitchers are busts(Buchholz, Joba, Porcello, Bailey, Morales, Davis) and 5 of those 11 hitters are busts(Snider, Rasmus, Maybin, LaRoche, Schafer)

    Moustakas, Jennings, Ellsbury, Wieters, Bruce, and Longoria are quality players while only Kershaw, Price, and Parker are quality.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 11-26-2012 at 07:17 PM.

  9. #174
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    Rotoworld
    Bob Dutton of the Kansas City Star reports that the Royals have had discussions about trading top prospect Wil Myers for either James Shields or Jon Lester.
    The Royals have already added Ervin Santana via trade this offseason from the Angels and recently signed Jeremy Guthrie to a three-year contract, but they want a true front-line starter and are apparently willing to deal one of the most promising young hitters in the game in order to acquire one. Myers, 21, batted .314/.387/.600 with 37 home runs and 109 RBI in 134 games this past season between the Double-A and Triple-A levels.

  10. #175
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    Jon Lester?

  11. #176
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    If they'll take Lester, they should be able to take Dickey as well. Cmon lets get this doneeee

  12. #177
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    If your the royals woul u rather have shields, Lester, or Niese + familia+ Duda?


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  13. #178
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    Factoring in age and contract I would take niese over shields or Lester.


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  14. #179
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    Lets not get crazy. I'll take Lester or Shields over Niese.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Lets not get crazy. I'll take Lester or Shields over Niese.
    And you'd be right. Last year was a breakout season for Niese, but he still has to prove that he can do that consistently. Both Shields and Lester have shown that they are good for over 200 innings per year of top quality pitching. Since Niese's reliability is still somewhat unknown (after all, last year was his first sub 4.20 ERA and 1.4 WHIP) we'd certainly need to add prospects or players.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

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