Week 10: Bucs @ Panthers

[DodgerBlueMike]

I mean, I get the "armchair" comment, and that it's easy to judge when it's not us, but I really don't think it is. Seriously, even if they won that game Rivera is likely to lose his job, if he made that call and won it would at least look gutsy. Same thing for the ATL game. The offense was hot (just scored the previous drive, and already converted one 3rd and long on the current drive), so why not? I knew the game was over once TD got that penalty.

Hey I agree 10000% he should have gone for it, absolutely no second thoughts involved.....I always believe in thinking about "worse case scenarios"....and on that play, the worse case was they come up short on 4th and 1 and TB gets the ball at midfield with no TO's.....give the fans something to cheer about, show some cahones, and if anything else, it gives Cam a little confidence knowing his coach had faith in him getting a yard and getting the win

[homestarunner93]

Oh, and what the hell can McDermott do about this loss, for those of you who want to blame him? Not his fault that Luke Kuechly looks brainless in coverage half of the time, and cost the team both the TD and the two point conversion.

[NCBoSoxfan21]

Oh, and what the hell can McDermott do about this loss, for those of you who want to blame him? Not his fault that Luke Kuechly looks brainless in coverage half of the time, and cost the team both the TD and the two point conversion.

Ha.

[homestarunner93]

Ha.

It's true. Ignore what the announcers are saying, and actually watch him. Kuechly is being overrated by a good stretch right now. Tackles are the most overrated stat in the league. I'm not saying he isn't good, but he isn't this monstrously good LB that they claim he is, at least not yet. He makes some real bonehead plays in coverage, and he made two of them that cost the Panthers the game in regulation today. If you can't see that, well, you must not know football very well.

[manbearchef]

It's true. Ignore what the announcers are saying, and actually watch him. Kuechly is being overrated by a good stretch right now. Tackles are the most overrated stat in the league. I'm not saying he isn't good, but he isn't this monstrously good LB that they claim he is, at least not yet. He makes some real bonehead plays in coverage, and he made two of them that cost the Panthers the game in regulation today. If you can't see that, well, you must not know football very well.

I think I know what you're seeing, but I don't think it's been Kuechly. I've seen Kuechly on formations where he covers the short-middle field and the Safeties are in a cover-2, but he breaks out of his zone and moves toward where the ball is going, which makes it look like it's him. If that's not what you're talking about then I must be missing it. Regardless, his tackles are the furthest thing from overrated. Other than Davis and sometimes Anderson, he's the only player on the team that can tackle. Better yet, he's made tackles (as a rookie mind you) that I haven't seen since Urlacher was in his prime (TFL against SEA for example).

Btw, nice sig lol.

[homestarunner93]

I think I know what you're seeing, but I don't think it's been Kuechly. I've seen Kuechly on formations where he covers the short-middle field and the Safeties are in a cover-2, but he breaks out of his zone and moves toward where the ball is going, which makes it look like it's him. If that's not what you're talking about then I must be missing it. Regardless, his tackles are the furthest thing from overrated. Other than Davis and sometimes Anderson, he's the only player on the team that can tackle. Better yet, he's made tackles (as a rookie mind you) that I haven't seen since Urlacher was in his prime (TFL against SEA for example).

Btw, nice sig lol.

Kuechly has to continue to get depth in Cover 2 plays. It is absolutely necessary for the MLB to continue to drop, or teams will torch your safeties with long routes in the middle, coincidentally exactly what happened when Vincent Jackson scored that TD. As far as the two point conversion, Kuechly got sucked up because of the play action, and the ball went right over his head. If he's where he should have been, he knocks that ball away.

I'm not saying his tackling is overrated as much as the stat itself. A lot of times, he (and other players) get credit for a tackle when they dive into the pile after the play is already over. That inflates his tackle numbers.

Glad you like it.

[CarolinaFan87]

Oh, and what the hell can McDermott do about this loss, for those of you who want to blame him? Not his fault that Luke Kuechly looks brainless in coverage half of the time, and cost the team both the TD and the two point conversion.

McDermott could actually grow a set and call aggressive plays instead of having his defense sit back and surrender huge chunks of the field. McDermott's play calling blows.

Referring to the play calling at the end of the game

[homestarunner93]

McDermott could actually grow a set and call aggressive plays instead of having his defense sit back and surrender huge chunks of the field. McDermott's play calling blows.

Referring to the play calling at the end of the game

So, instead of getting beaten in chunks, the Panthers will get beaten in one big play. Makes sense.

[N.E.PanthersFan]

In other news, I'm now convinced that fans are the reason teams become the Raiders/Browns. Whoever the new GM is better do a damn good job of picking the next coach (assuming Rivera's done), otherwise we might as well start the revolving door now.

[manbearchef]

So, instead of getting beaten in chunks, the Panthers will get beaten in one big play. Makes sense.

That sounds bad, but honestly, the bend-don't-break defense we've been playing in close games hasn't worked once. It lost us the games against ATL, CHI, and now TB, but if we played more aggressive in those games three things could've happened: 1.) We get burned, don't score on our offense's drive and lose, 2.) We get burned, but our offense drives down the field and we win, or 3.) Our aggressive defense beats the offense and they don't score, and we win the game.

Under normal teams' circumstances our playcalling might work out, but for whatever reason our defense just turns to mush when the game is on the line.

In other news, I'm now convinced that fans are the reason teams become the Raiders/Browns. Whoever the new GM is better do a damn good job of picking the next coach (assuming Rivera's done), otherwise we might as well start the revolving door now.

I don't get what the fans have to do with the GM? Honestly, this is one of the few seasons our fans have the right to complain as much as they do. Last year we improved so much from the 2010 season and were doing as well as anyone could expect, yet people were calling for everyone's head.

I do agree that the next GM better be pretty amazing. This team has most of the talent, just not the coaching and a few missing pieces.

Off-topic, but given that our CBs haven't been abysmal with Gamble out, does anyone think he gets cut if he doesn't restructure? I think I read somewhere that he's supposed to make $10M next season, and Beason is supposed to make $13M. I have a very strong feeling that Beason might be done unless he takes a cut, unless the new GM/coaches love him. $13M is just an awful lot to be paying a 4-3 OLB that's only played like 5 games in two years(let's face it, unless Beason magically returns to his beasty self, Kuechly is clearly the better option, even as a rookie).

[CarolinaFan87]

So, instead of getting beaten in chunks, the Panthers will get beaten in one big play. Makes sense.

Have you not watched our games? When we sit back we get destroyed at the end of games. I am not saying we should get blitz happy just saying stay with what was working for you the entire game. We were holding them in check the entire game why not keep calling the same plays that were being successful? There is ZERO excuse for letting a team get a touchdown with the amount of time that was left on the clock and the fact the Bucs had NO timeouts. The only thing prevent defense does is it prevents you from winning the game. I have always like Rivera and he seems like a great person but it is time for him to go along with the rest of the coaching staff. McDermott and Chuds play calling is awful.

[homestarunner93]

That sounds bad, but honestly, the bend-don't-break defense we've been playing in close games hasn't worked once. It lost us the games against ATL, CHI, and now TB, but if we played more aggressive in those games three things could've happened: 1.) We get burned, don't score on our offense's drive and lose, 2.) We get burned, but our offense drives down the field and we win, or 3.) Our aggressive defense beats the offense and they don't score, and we win the game.

Under normal teams' circumstances our playcalling might work out, but for whatever reason our defense just turns to mush when the game is on the line.

Have you not watched our games? When we sit back we get destroyed at the end of games. I am not saying we should get blitz happy just saying stay with what was working for you the entire game. We were holding them in check the entire game why not keep calling the same plays that were being successful? There is ZERO excuse for letting a team get a touchdown with the amount of time that was left on the clock and the fact the Bucs had NO timeouts. The only thing prevent defense does is it prevents you from winning the game. I have always like Rivera and he seems like a great person but it is time for him to go along with the rest of the coaching staff. McDermott and Chuds play calling is awful.

We aren't playing a prevent defense. If you think what you're seeing is prevent, you don't know what a prevent is. The fact of the matter is, players aren't executing. The Bucs weren't eating us up like Chicago. They were moving the ball in big chunks, propelled by that ******** personal foul call. The problem isn't playcalling. It's execution. The players aren't making plays, and we're losing at the end of games because of it. It doesn't help that on offense we kept running right into the belly of the defense that knew we were going to run the ball.

[N.E.PanthersFan]

Eh, I don't think we really run too many aggressive play-calls defensively. It's basically just the front four working their tails off to get after the QB. That said, you notice that our DBs tend to play even further off their marks at the end of games, and I don't think that's a good thing. It wasn't just the pass game at the end that beat us; they were able to pick up some nice big chunks on the ground too.

I think a lot of things are going to happen in the off-season that I, for one, am not looking forward to. I think Gamble is going to be part of that. I think Beason will be asked to restructure like TD did. If he does, that makes things awkward for the LBs with Davis playing lights-out and Kuechly getting things done in the middle. Beason is the best LB this team has ever had, would be a shame to see him leave while he's still so young. Obviously, there's going to be some serious discussion around Williams and Stewart and "keep your strengths strong" isn't going to be here for it.

I guess I just hope the GM doesn't get too carried away and completely blast away the (expensive) talent we have to "rebuild" for the next 5 years. That said, I also hope the players are smart enough to take the pay cuts needed to keep talent here.

As for what fans have to do with GMs, how does Charlotte feel about Rivera right now? The media, the fans, the owner -- how do they feel about him? Do you not think whoever the new GM ends up being is going to know this? Can you imagine the negativity if the new GM elected to keep Rivera and his staff?

The reason for asking is quite simple: he's been a head coach for less than two years and he inherited a 2-14 team. Yes, we made a lot of progress last year offensively and regressed this year. We also regressed defensively last year and have progressed this year. Special teams continues to be a disaster.

The concern on my part is that firing Rivera and Co. and hiring someone new means that your entire team has to learn a new system. The offense has to start from scratch, the defense has to start from scratch, the second-year QB has to start from scratch. That risks putting the entire team back at least 1-2 years.

Honestly, I think Rivera's future in Carolina is already settled. I don't know whether he's lost the players or not, but he clearly doesn't have answers right now. Ronde Barber's take is interesting (per Tom Sorensen):

Are they snake bit?

“That’s not it,” says Ronde Barber, veteran Tampa Bay safety and unofficial team spokesman.

Then what is it?

“A lot of different factors,” Barber says. “I’ve seen most of their (Carolina’s) games. They have talent. It’s not the players and it’s not the coaches. They just haven’t been able to finish games.”

Last season the Buccaneers didn’t. They won three of their first four and finished 4-12. The Panthers beat them by 19 and 32 points.

So they started over. Now they’re 6-4.

What did you do?

“No comment,” says Barber, smiling.

With a little prompting he says: “New players and a new coach.”

Barber adds: “Our attitude changed. Good for us.”

That's why the next GM has to pick the right coach. Because the new coach needs to establish a winning attitude. Because the new coordinators need to make the most of the talent that's here. Because a revolving door to the coach's office won't be good for this organization in the long run.

If we have the choice to be like the Steelers/Texans (whose decision to stick with Kubiak is paying off) or Raiders/Browns, I'll go with the former. If we don't take that approach with this coaching staff, we must do it with the next. Again, that's why that search is going to be so important.

[homestarunner93]

We need a HC that is willing to show he cares, show a little fire on the field. I don't mean someone like Rex Ryan that is going to act like an ***, but even John Fox could get fired up over some plays when it was game time. Rivera sits there with his arm crossed like he couldn't give a **** what happens and is ready for the game to just be over already. That's probably why the Panthers are 8-10 in games they lead in the 4th quarter, a stat that you should be winning at least a 75% clip in.

[N.E.PanthersFan]

We aren't playing a prevent defense. If you think what you're seeing is prevent, you don't know what a prevent is. The fact of the matter is, players aren't executing. The Bucs weren't eating us up like Chicago. They were moving the ball in big chunks, propelled by that ******** personal foul call. The problem isn't playcalling. It's execution. The players aren't making plays, and we're losing at the end of games because of it. It doesn't help that on offense we kept running right into the belly of the defense that knew we were going to run the ball.

This, this, and this. Charles Johnson even called teammates out on Twitter (didn't name names) for not executing. (DWill and CJ are making me think a Twitter ban might be a good idea.) And, yeah, anyone who was watching the game was ready to throw up when we were doing nothing but running it into a solid Bucs front-seven behind a beat up O-line. Or do we not trust Newton to make high percentage passes with the game on the line?

McDermott drives me insane sometimes, but today's game wasn't him. Chicago, yes; this one, no.

On the bright side -- and I posted this earlier -- I was happy to see a couple stunts on defense and a couple quick slants on offense, and they were successful. (Every once in a while I get lucky and it looks like I know what I'm talking about.) Now if only they'd bring in someone to work with Chud and the O-line on the running game...