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  1. #106
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    I'm not sure I would do JPA for Gee either. I like the progress Gee made this season, his slider really helped him vs. RHP.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korac View Post
    Look, let's be realistic. Every fan overvalues their players. It's what we do. Niese has value for the reasons that have been mentioned, but he's not King Felix here. A trade w/ TO involving JPA and a top prospect seem reasonable, but when guys start throwing around Lawrie, or 2 or 3 of our top prospects along with a current MLB starter, it just comes off as silly.

    You may not like Gose's game personally, or think Syndergaard is over-rated or whatever, but they are rated highly and have a perceived value in the league. It's the same reason Harvey or Wheeler have so much value to your team.

    If I offered you say Romero, for Murphy, Wheeler and Harvey, you'd laugh at me right? But aside from last year, Romero has been rock solid and is on a great contract. It's the same general idea (Please don't complain about the names involved, the specifics of the imaginary trades aren't what I'm trying to get across here).

    Mid-level pitchers simply don't bag MLB regulars and piles of prospects in trades. They have worth, but you're not trading Cliff Lee, or CC Sabathia here.
    I think we are trying to be realistic here. So lets start by forgetting about Lawrie. We're talking:
    JPA - admittedly, an average to below average catcher at best, somewhat defensively challenged.
    Gose - a highly ranked prospect before 2012, but who may have lost some of his lustre. Main assets glove, arm and speed.
    Syndergaard - a really good pitching prospect with a high ceiling, but still about 3 years away.

    To your points, I do like Gose's game. We can use his speed and defense. If Met coaches can improve his patience at the plate, reduce Ks and raise OBP, he can be special. And I think Syndergaard is reasonably rated. But to compare him the Harvey or Wheeler is silly. Harvey has already had success in the majors and Wheeler has a strong track record and is 1/2 season away. Wheeler is currently ranked the #6 prospect in all of baseball, while Syndergaard is #83. And alot lot can happen with Syndergaard in the next 3 years.

    Your analogy with Romero doesn't hold water. (No offense meant.) A more apt comparison a year ago would have been Romero for Thole, Familia and Nieuwenhuis, our starting catcher, our #3 and #5 prospects a year ago. Wheeler and Harvey were too highly thought of to both be considered in a trade for Romero.

    So, getting back to reality, I could see that we might need to add another prospect along with Niese to bag JPA, Gose and Syndergaard. But I don't think that trade is far off the mark.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    I'm not sure I would do JPA for Gee either. I like the progress Gee made this season, his slider really helped him vs. RHP.
    Considering he's coming off an injury that we honestly don't know how he comes back too, I wouldn't mind a JPA Gee swap. I see both players being above average at best. It would be a good deal for both NY and TOR.

    Also, it opens a spot for Wheeler this year if Dickey and Niese aren't traded.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    I'm not sure I would do JPA for Gee either. I like the progress Gee made this season, his slider really helped him vs. RHP.
    Injuries in conversation and the fact that Gee has a low ceiling... I don't think that the Jays would do JPA for Gee. Catchers with good offensive skills and pretty good defense are hard to come by

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    Injuries in conversation and the fact that Gee has a low ceiling... I don't think that the Jays would do JPA for Gee. Catchers with good offensive skills and pretty good defense are hard to come by
    Although JPA has some pop, to me it doesn't translate to good offensive skills. With 23 HRs in 2011 and 18 last year, he still hasn't been able to get his SLG above .440 because he doesn't hit other XBHs. He hits more HRs than doubles. So far, he's a .222 hitter at the major league level. I grant you, he did have a great offensive season in 2010 in Las Vegas, but c'mon, it's Las Vegas. And he had a lousy season in the rarified air of Las Vegas the year before. So I'm not ready to buy into his good offensive skills.

    Yes, decent catchers are hard to come by. But it seems that Saltalamacchia is on the market too, and he is certainly a reasonable alternative to JPA.

    Gee is a good #4 or 5, and as such, an even swap for Arencibia should be a fair trade. I think both will continue to improve as time goes by.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  6. #111
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    I may sound silly, but is getting a catcher that important? Most catchers in this league are atrocious, and teams like the Yankees and Rays don't have the best catchers. On the other hand, having decent young pitching, is even more important. Sure Gee won't post a 3 ERA w/ 215+ innings and 200+ SO's, however he'll give you 175 innings while posting a 4.30 ERA, and most importantly he's 27 and he's dirt cheap. Pre-arbitration 27 y/o quality #4's are hard to come by. To make this point seem larger, guys like Ervin Santana and Jeremy Guthrie are getting paid 8+ mil, that should tell you that we should hold on to Gee.
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  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    Injuries in conversation and the fact that Gee has a low ceiling... I don't think that the Jays would do JPA for Gee. Catchers with good offensive skills and pretty good defense are hard to come by
    Eh it was not structural arm injury and I don't believe Gee has a low ceiling either. You don't need to throw 95 MPH to be a good pitcher in this league. Gee was doing a great job of missing bats this season using all of his pitches and his walks went way down.

    JPA has power, but his plate discipline is pretty terrible and he's a bad hitter. His defense is average at best so I personally don't think he is worth a ton. He's the same age as Gee.

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