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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rio40 View Post
    In my opinion that is a fair deal. Blue Jays are getting a 26 year old lefty with contract control and has already tapped into his potential. He is just entering his prime.

    JPA is a decent player. He has power but lets face it he is a .220 hitter. Gose and Syndergaard are both to risky for the Mets to accept just one in a deal. I don't see the Mets taking a deal of just JPA, Gose. I think Syndergaard would need to be included. In no way is is Gose and JPA an equivalent talent to Niese. If Gose reaches close to his ceiling its different but more talented players fail then succeed.
    I knew there was a reason I liked you.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post
    I'm not that high on JPA, but he is acceptable as a RH batter to team with Thole and possibly grow into the job full time. The more I consider Gose, the less I am enamored by him, but I still like him because he does have a high upside, and I think the Mets stress on patience will rub off on him. Nevertheless, he is still a project. (I'm not being negative to lower the price in a trade. Those are just the facts.) Syndergaard is a high ceiling prospect, but as you say, carries the normal risk of a pitcher a few years removed. So the bottom line is I still would do:

    Arencibia, Gose & Syndergaard for Niese & a PTBN.

    I might be persuaded to take Rajai instead of Gose, but he is only under contract through 2013 and his credentials as a leadoff hitter are not very good. I've been looking at multi-player deals as a way to fill more than one hole most economically.

    If I can't make that deal, I would probably move on to the Twins, where I would ask for Willingham, Aaron Hicks or Oswaldo Arcia & Kyle Gibson, and seek a catcher elsewhere. Actually, I like SF's Hector Sanchez, or even Tyler Flowers. One other place I'd check out is Cleveland. If they'd part with Carlos Santana, I'd work a deal that would include Shin-soo Choo.
    Not a chance that happens.

    A couple of years ago Toronto traded Halladay for d'Arnaud (when he was in A ball), Gose (when he was in A ball) and Drabek (in AAA).

    Niese is not worth more than Halladay, for that package I'd want Niese and Gee at least.
    2012-2013 Offseason Shopping List

    1. Starting Pitcher - Josh Johnson
    2. Second Baseman - Maicer Izturis
    3. Left Fielder - Melky Cabrera
    4. Starting Pitcher - Mark Buehrle
    5. Designated Hitter
    6. Backup Infielder - Emilio Bonifacio
    7. Replace Alvarez - R.A. Dickey (!)


  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILDD View Post
    Not a chance that happens.

    A couple of years ago Toronto traded Halladay for d'Arnaud (when he was in A ball), Gose (when he was in A ball) and Drabek (in AAA).

    Niese is not worth more than Halladay, for that package I'd want Niese and Gee at least.
    Niese is under control for 6 more seasons. Halladay was only under contract for one more season.

    And Toronto got Michael Taylor, not Gose in the Halladay deal.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rio40 View Post
    I don't know why you are so in favor of taking older players like Davis and Willingham. It makes zero sense. This team is rebuilding and is no where near contention.
    If you're willing to give up on 2013 altogether, you're absolutely right. That also means you trade Dickey (who knows what he'll contribute in 2 or 3 years) and give strong consideration to trading Wright. (because, by your definition, he'll be "old" before we are ready to contend again)

    We were in contention until the break last season, and with some upgrades, I think we could be in the hunt for the wild card this year. So, I would consider taking on an "old" player because he fills a specific need.

    Rajai Davis, who will be 32 next year, (is that really "old"?) averaged 43 stolen bases a year for the last 4 years. Do you think we would be a better ball club if we had some speed at the top of the order? BTW, you did read that I would much prefer 21 year old Anthony Gose to Davis, right?

    Josh Willingham will be 34 next year and has 2 very affordable years left on his contract. He hit 35 HRs last year and has a career .362 OBP and .845 OPS. At ages 34 and 35 I think he is good for at least 25 Hrs a year at Citi, and as a RH batter he would offer great protection to Ike in the 5th spot in the batting order. So, he's affordable, proven reliable, and fills the need for added power in the middle of the lineup.

    You may disagree with me, but I am looking for a mix of players. Some who could contribute immediately, while mentoring the kids on the team, and others who need seasoning but who could make us a perrenial contender in years to come.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILDD View Post
    Not a chance that happens.

    A couple of years ago Toronto traded Halladay for d'Arnaud (when he was in A ball), Gose (when he was in A ball) and Drabek (in AAA).

    Niese is not worth more than Halladay, for that package I'd want Niese and Gee at least.
    Niese, at 26 years old, making $3 million next year, and under contract for 4 years with 2 more reasonable option years, may not be worth in prospects what Halliday was, at 33 years old, making $15.75 Million, with only 1 more year before he got a 3 year/$60 million contract with a $20 million vesting option. But I think you can make a strong case for Niese's value.

    Then again, Arencibia isn't worth what D'Arnaud was worth, (who as a 20 year old was ranked the #81 prospect in baseball by BaseballAmerica) Gose isn't worth what Michael Taylor was worth, (Taylor had a .312 career minor league avg. at the time and was ranked the #29 prospect in all of baseball) and Syndergaard isn't worth what Drabeck was worth. (Drabeck was ranked the #25 prospect in all of baseball at the time)

    OK, you've convinced me.

    For Niese and Gee I want D'Arnaud + Gose + Syndergaard + Kevin Pillar or Danny Barnes.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post
    For Niese and Gee I want D'Arnaud + Gose + Syndergaard + Kevin Pillar or Danny Barnes.
    No.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    No.
    Go back to Alex and ask again. LOL
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post

    For Niese and Gee I want D'Arnaud + Gose + Syndergaard + Kevin Pillar or Danny Barnes.
    I just got off the phone with AA and told him about your trade idea.

    He said...and I'm quoting here "What you talkin bout willis!"

    He also said to say hi to JP and say..."haha...I'm a GM and you aren't!"
    Hey! It'S JoeyBatS

  9. #69
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    [/QUOTE]
    Niese is under control for 6 more seasons. Halladay was only under contract for one more season.

    And Toronto got Michael Taylor, not Gose in the Halladay deal.[/QUOTE]

    You are correct, but AA flipped Taylor for Brett Wallace, then flipped Wallace for Gose.

  10. #70
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    If the Jays traded Lawrie for Niese I'd lose my ****. That would be an absolutely AWFUL deal for the Blue Jays.

    Yes, Lawrie hasn't done that much yet but he has shown flashes of brilliance, much more than guys like Justin Smoak has in the big leagues (does no one remember Lawrie's rookie season where he tore the cover off the ball?)

    Some of these trade offers here are downright insane. Gose, Syndergaard and JPA for Niese... Pfffff.... why not Bautista and JJ for Gee while we're at it?

    Gibbons reaction to the Adam Lind trade

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayOnBoard View Post
    If the Jays traded Lawrie for Niese I'd lose my ****. That would be an absolutely AWFUL deal for the Blue Jays.

    Yes, Lawrie hasn't done that much yet but he has shown flashes of brilliance, much more than guys like Justin Smoak has in the big leagues (does no one remember Lawrie's rookie season where he tore the cover off the ball?)

    Some of these trade offers here are downright insane. Gose, Syndergaard and JPA for Niese... Pfffff.... why not Bautista and JJ for Gee while we're at it?
    I feel the same way except I want more than Lawrie.

    JPA is at best an average catcher and Gose K'd roughly a 1/3 of his at-bats. You aren't getting Niese for just them.

    Gordon Beckham tore the cover off the ball, I wouldn't trade Niese for him either.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    I feel the same way except I want more than Lawrie.

    JPA is at best an average catcher and Gose K'd roughly a 1/3 of his at-bats. You aren't getting Niese for just them.

    Gordon Beckham tore the cover off the ball, I wouldn't trade Niese for him either.
    Then I'd tell Sandy to shove it and I'd go sign Marcum or McCarthy for cash, keep my prospects and get close to the same value (at least in the next 2 years) than I would if I traded for Niese.

    I agree - JPA is an average catcher and Gose hasn't developed yet (but Gose is only 21 - JPA on the other hand....).

    No one in the Jays forum is high on JPA, I think you're missing the point here. No one is high on Jon Niese either.... and asking for Lawrie (who the Jays would only trade in a deal for someone like Felix) is just a joke.... no chance at all. What do you think a soft throwing lefty would perform in the AL East, away from a pitchers park? We had a soft throwing lefty, his name was Brett Cecil and he sucks. Do you want him? He has lots of years of team control too I'm mostly kidding of course, I know Niese is a far far superior pitcher than Cecil.... but Niese is at best a #3 starter with a good contract and Lawrie could be a young superstar for years... and you want MORE? I thought Jays fans overrated their players... wowzers.

    Gibbons reaction to the Adam Lind trade

  13. #73
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    I don't even want Lawrie.

    I feel he's overrated especially in a stadium that favors hitters. If the Mets are going to trade Niese I think someone will overpay for a 26 year old lefty.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    I don't even want Lawrie.

    I feel he's overrated especially in a stadium that favors hitters. If the Mets are going to trade Niese I think someone will overpay for a 26 year old lefty.
    You might be right, I don't doubt someone will overpay for a guy like Niese or Dickey, especially when it's reported guys like Anibal Sanchez want 90 million over 6 years (lulz).

    I think they'll get good value for him, KC probably makes a lot of sense as a trading partner but IMO there's no way they'll give up Myers for Niese, even though he's "just" a prospect. That said, much like the Jays their farm system is stacked - but I doubt Moore is smart enough to trade for Niese. Guys like Wandy Rodriguez or Ted Lilly are much more his type of trade target Still can't believe they gave Guthrie 25 million...

    Gibbons reaction to the Adam Lind trade

  15. #75
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    There's a whole lot of fail in this trade. Every team's fans overrates their players but WOW. Some of these proposals are downright ridiculous. Do you think trading JPA for Dickey is a fair trade? No, didn't think so. I don't either but that's more fairer then some of the proposal's i've seen here. JPA, Gose and Syndergaard for Niese? LOL. We don't need a 5th starter that bad.

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