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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    I'd trade Niese for Lawrie straight up if they'd do it. No way do I want to deal Niese for Arencibia and Syndergaard. How does that help us at all?

    And Gose is vastly overrated. I'd take him, but I wouldn't deal anyone significant for him.
    LOL Niese for Lawrie straight up? We destroy that deal and TOR would know that. Whats the deal with some guys coming up with unrealistic trades?

    Lawrie is as big or bigger a young player/prospect as Wheeler and Harvey. If we want Lawrie, better be talkin Wheeler or Harvey being traded.

  2. #47
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    .273/.324/.405/.729 looks kinda average to me.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    LOL Niese for Lawrie straight up? We destroy that deal and TOR would know that. Whats the deal with some guys coming up with unrealistic trades?

    Lawrie is as big or bigger a young player/prospect as Wheeler and Harvey. If we want Lawrie, better be talkin Wheeler or Harvey being traded.
    How do we destroy that deal? We lose a reliable left-handed #2/#3 starter under contract for 6 more years at a great rate. To me, a guy who has already shown great success in the big leagues is valuable. He's still just 26 years old too. Finding positions in the corners are much easier than finding a quality lefty.

    Wheeler and Harvey were both higher rated prospects and we'd be foolish to deal one of them for him considering he was nothing special last year.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    .273/.324/.405/.729 looks kinda average to me.
    sure... in his first full season. dude will be one of the elite 3B in this league. No way TOR goes for a Niese for Lawrie deal.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    sure... in his first full season. dude will be one of the elite 3B in this league. No way TOR goes for a Niese for Lawrie deal.
    They said the same about Gordon Beckham and Justin Smoak.

    And no way I would go for Niese for Lawrie because I want more.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    .273/.324/.405/.729 looks kinda average to me.
    You guys do know that Lawrie was 22 and Gose 21 last year right? Marisnick was 22 and in AA. Hech was 23 and spent most of the year in AAA. Those two were the centerpieces of the Marlins deal.

    Not a fan of Niese anyways (even if we needed LH SP- We have three). I don't know how his stuff translates to the AL and the AL East.

    As far as Dickey goes, I would mind acquiring him if the price is right. But at the end of the day he's a 38 year old knuckleballer. I wouldn't give up a ton of prospects for him.

    That's why I think you'll keep him. If Sandy is expecting a massive package for dickey well it's just not going happen.

    I'm trying to be rude or anything but you guys seem like an organization that massively overvalues it's own players. Keeping Hairston because you guys were demanding an org top three prospect was lunacy imo.

  7. #52
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    [QUOTE=boller4prez;24428699]
    You guys do know that Lawrie was 22 and Gose 21 last year right? Marisnick was 22 and in AA. Hech was 23 and spent most of the year in AAA. Those two were the centerpieces of the Marlins deal.
    I understand that, but Dickey or Niese are not nearly as expensive as the guys they got from the Marlins and J.J. was not as effective last year.

    Not a fan of Niese anyways (even if we needed LH SP- We have three). I don't know how his stuff translates to the AL and the AL East.
    His stuff translates well since he has about 4 pitches that he can throw for strikes and commands well.

    As far as Dickey goes, I would mind acquiring him if the price is right. But at the end of the day he's a 38 year old knuckleballer. I wouldn't give up a ton of prospects for him.
    I agree that I do not think the Mets can get the top prospects from a team for him, but 2 solid B prospects.

    That's why I think you'll keep him. If Sandy is expecting a massive package for dickey well it's just not going happen.
    I agree

    I'm trying to be rude or anything but you guys seem like an organization that massively overvalues it's own players. Keeping Hairston because you guys were demanding an org top three prospect was lunacy imo.
    That was a ridiculous decision by Sandy. The Mets could ofeasily gotten a C prospects with some promise for Hairston, but they did not.


    Is understandable to want the most for your players and the Mets will ask for that for either Niese(who is signed for relative cheap for a while) or Dickey(who has been on of the best pitchers in baseball for 3 years now) and if they do not get what they seek to just pass. Many times another team becomes desperate enough to cave in and I think that is what the Mets are looking for.

    I personally do not think the Mets can get a Myers or D'Arnaud for Niese or Dickey, but they have to try.

    Oh BTW I like Gose and know he is still very young and could be a very good lead off hitter for a long time, something the Mets need him and a pitching prospect for Niese would be a solid deal for both teams imo.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by boller4prez View Post
    You guys do know that Lawrie was 22 and Gose 21 last year right? Marisnick was 22 and in AA. Hech was 23 and spent most of the year in AAA. Those two were the centerpieces of the Marlins deal.

    Not a fan of Niese anyways (even if we needed LH SP- We have three). I don't know how his stuff translates to the AL and the AL East.

    As far as Dickey goes, I would mind acquiring him if the price is right. But at the end of the day he's a 38 year old knuckleballer. I wouldn't give up a ton of prospects for him.

    That's why I think you'll keep him. If Sandy is expecting a massive package for dickey well it's just not going happen.

    I'm trying to be rude or anything but you guys seem like an organization that massively overvalues it's own players. Keeping Hairston because you guys were demanding an org top three prospect was lunacy imo.
    We are aware of the ages of your guys. And both Lawrie and Gose are top quality ballplayers. I just wouldn't want Lawrie in a trade because we have sufficient infield depth. Don't get me wrong, if AA offered him up as part of a package, and the rest was there too, I'd grab him in a heartbeat.

    You may not be a fan of Niese, but most GMs are. I think with Niese you'd still have 3 lefties in your rotation because he would push Happ out. But I do believe that AA is more interested in Dickey, realizing that a 38 yr old knuckleballer can still have several good years ahead. We may wind up keeping R.A. but if he is traded, he will bring back a very good package. (I'm not sure how you define massive, but he'll bring at least 1 top prospect, another in the #5-15 range, and probably one more lesser one.)

    Keeping Hairston had nothing to do with what we were demanding. It had to do with what we were offered. Obviously, SA didn't think he was getting enough to part with Scott. That's not lunacy, it's good management.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  9. #54
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    Toronto are in win-now mode so any trade that opens up a hole just won't happen unless you're talking a super star coming back. Lawrie won't be in any trade unless someone like Felix is coming the other way.

    Blue Jays still have a need for a 5th starter to give some depth. After Johnson, Morrow, Buehrle & Romero you have Happ. After him the cupboard is bare apart from young kids who aren't ready. Last year showed AA that you need depth to make a serious run unless you're very lucky with injuries and form.

    Parts that are available are Arencibia, one of Rasmus/Gose and prospects like Syndergaard, Sanchez etc.

    JPA is a league average catcher, decent bat with poor but improving defense. He works well with a pitching staff and is arb eligible in 2014.

    Gose is a very high ceiling CF, issues with the bat but defense and base-running make hi a good player even with a below average bat. If his bat comes around then you have a genuine star. I personally don't see it happening but I'm not a scout by any means.

    Syndergaard and Sanchez are our current blue-chip prospects and look to have very high ceilings but come with the usual issue with pitchers, they are entering their age 20 season and are probably going to start in AA so there's no guarantee they make it.


    AA may be interested in Dickey but you only get one year of him and then he gets expensive ven if he signs an extension. The payroll just took a huge jump, I doubt that it's going to go up much more which is why I think he'll be going after a cost controlled guy like Niese or Gee.
    2012-2013 Offseason Shopping List

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  10. #55
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    We already have a rookie CF who strikes out a ton.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILDD View Post
    Toronto are in win-now mode so any trade that opens up a hole just won't happen unless you're talking a super star coming back. Lawrie won't be in any trade unless someone like Felix is coming the other way.

    Blue Jays still have a need for a 5th starter to give some depth. After Johnson, Morrow, Buehrle & Romero you have Happ. After him the cupboard is bare apart from young kids who aren't ready. Last year showed AA that you need depth to make a serious run unless you're very lucky with injuries and form.

    Parts that are available are Arencibia, one of Rasmus/Gose and prospects like Syndergaard, Sanchez etc.

    JPA is a league average catcher, decent bat with poor but improving defense. He works well with a pitching staff and is arb eligible in 2014.

    Gose is a very high ceiling CF, issues with the bat but defense and base-running make hi a good player even with a below average bat. If his bat comes around then you have a genuine star. I personally don't see it happening but I'm not a scout by any means.

    Syndergaard and Sanchez are our current blue-chip prospects and look to have very high ceilings but come with the usual issue with pitchers, they are entering their age 20 season and are probably going to start in AA so there's no guarantee they make it.


    AA may be interested in Dickey but you only get one year of him and then he gets expensive ven if he signs an extension. The payroll just took a huge jump, I doubt that it's going to go up much more which is why I think he'll be going after a cost controlled guy like Niese or Gee.
    I'm not in love with JPA, but he is an acceptable addition as a RH bat to pair with Thole, and perhaps grow into the full time role. The longer I look at Gose, the less enchanted I get with him, but I still like his upside potential because I think the Mets stress on patience will rub off on him. He is, however, a project. Syndergaard has the normal risks of a pitcher who is still a few years away, but he does have potential. And I have been looking at multi-player trades as a way to fill more than one hole most economically. So I would still like to do:

    Arencibia, Gose & Syndergaard for Niese + a PTBN.

    I might be persuaded to take Rajai instead of Gose, but he is only under contract through 2013 and his credentials as a leadoff hitter are not good.

    If I couldn't make that deal, I would probably move on to Minnesota, where I might get Willingham, Aaron Hicks or Oswaldo Arcia, and Kyle Gibson, and then look elsewhere for my catcher. Actually, I like the idea of SF catcher, Hector Sanchez, or even Tyler Flowers.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  12. #57
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    The difference is that Gose is 22 and Nieuwenhuis is 25 and while I think that Nieuwenhuis can put up better offensive numbers I just do not know if he can stay at center field specially with the foot injury he suffered.

    Also I love Gose's other tools since they are plus ones. He has a gun(This was a guy that could hit 97 mph in HS as a pitcher), can steal 40+ bases because of his speed and he will stay at center field for sure. Now you can tell me that you rather have den Dekker before Gose, but again dD is much older.

    IMO Gose can be a .260-.275/.330-.350/.375-.400 type guy who hits around 5-10 homers a year, steals around 40 bases and plays excellent defense.

    Honestly if you can get Gose and Syndergaard for either Dickey or Niese I would think about it real hard and maybe make the deal.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILDD View Post
    Toronto are in win-now mode so any trade that opens up a hole just won't happen unless you're talking a super star coming back. Lawrie won't be in any trade unless someone like Felix is coming the other way.

    Blue Jays still have a need for a 5th starter to give some depth. After Johnson, Morrow, Buehrle & Romero you have Happ. After him the cupboard is bare apart from young kids who aren't ready. Last year showed AA that you need depth to make a serious run unless you're very lucky with injuries and form.

    Parts that are available are Arencibia, one of Rasmus/Gose and prospects like Syndergaard, Sanchez etc.

    JPA is a league average catcher, decent bat with poor but improving defense. He works well with a pitching staff and is arb eligible in 2014.

    Gose is a very high ceiling CF, issues with the bat but defense and base-running make hi a good player even with a below average bat. If his bat comes around then you have a genuine star. I personally don't see it happening but I'm not a scout by any means.

    Syndergaard and Sanchez are our current blue-chip prospects and look to have very high ceilings but come with the usual issue with pitchers, they are entering their age 20 season and are probably going to start in AA so there's no guarantee they make it.


    AA may be interested in Dickey but you only get one year of him and then he gets expensive ven if he signs an extension. The payroll just took a huge jump, I doubt that it's going to go up much more which is why I think he'll be going after a cost controlled guy like Niese or Gee.
    I'm not that high on JPA, but he is acceptable as a RH batter to team with Thole and possibly grow into the job full time. The more I consider Gose, the less I am enamored by him, but I still like him because he does have a high upside, and I think the Mets stress on patience will rub off on him. Nevertheless, he is still a project. (I'm not being negative to lower the price in a trade. Those are just the facts.) Syndergaard is a high ceiling prospect, but as you say, carries the normal risk of a pitcher a few years removed. So the bottom line is I still would do:

    Arencibia, Gose & Syndergaard for Niese & a PTBN.

    I might be persuaded to take Rajai instead of Gose, but he is only under contract through 2013 and his credentials as a leadoff hitter are not very good. I've been looking at multi-player deals as a way to fill more than one hole most economically.

    If I can't make that deal, I would probably move on to the Twins, where I would ask for Willingham, Aaron Hicks or Oswaldo Arcia & Kyle Gibson, and seek a catcher elsewhere. Actually, I like SF's Hector Sanchez, or even Tyler Flowers. One other place I'd check out is Cleveland. If they'd part with Carlos Santana, I'd work a deal that would include Shin-soo Choo.
    Last edited by dunbummin; 11-23-2012 at 12:38 PM.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post
    I'm not that high on JPA, but he is acceptable as a RH batter to team with Thole and possibly grow into the job full time. The more I consider Gose, the less I am enamored by him, but I still like him because he does have a high upside, and I think the Mets stress on patience will rub off on him. Nevertheless, he is still a project. (I'm not being negative to lower the price in a trade. Those are just the facts.) Syndergaard is a high ceiling prospect, but as you say, carries the normal risk of a pitcher a few years removed. So the bottom line is I still would do:

    Arencibia, Gose & Syndergaard for Niese & a PTBN.

    I might be persuaded to take Rajai instead of Gose, but he is only under contract through 2013 and his credentials as a leadoff hitter are not very good. I've been looking at multi-player deals as a way to fill more than one hole most economically.

    If I can't make that deal, I would probably move on to the Twins, where I would ask for Willingham, Aaron Hicks or Oswaldo Arcia & Kyle Gibson, and seek a catcher elsewhere. Actually, I like SF's Hector Sanchez, or even Tyler Flowers. One other place I'd check out is Cleveland. If they'd part with Carlos Santana, I'd work a deal that would include Shin-soo Choo.
    I don't know why you are so in favor of taking older players like Davis and Willingham. It makes zero sense. This team is rebuilding and is no where near contention.


    Presenting the 2013 New York Mets Outfield.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post
    I'm not that high on JPA, but he is acceptable as a RH batter to team with Thole and possibly grow into the job full time. The more I consider Gose, the less I am enamored by him, but I still like him because he does have a high upside, and I think the Mets stress on patience will rub off on him. Nevertheless, he is still a project. (I'm not being negative to lower the price in a trade. Those are just the facts.) Syndergaard is a high ceiling prospect, but as you say, carries the normal risk of a pitcher a few years removed. So the bottom line is I still would do:

    Arencibia, Gose & Syndergaard for Niese & a PTBN.

    I might be persuaded to take Rajai instead of Gose, but he is only under contract through 2013 and his credentials as a leadoff hitter are not very good. I've been looking at multi-player deals as a way to fill more than one hole most economically.

    If I can't make that deal, I would probably move on to the Twins, where I would ask for Willingham, Aaron Hicks or Oswaldo Arcia & Kyle Gibson, and seek a catcher elsewhere. Actually, I like SF's Hector Sanchez, or even Tyler Flowers. One other place I'd check out is Cleveland. If they'd part with Carlos Santana, I'd work a deal that would include Shin-soo Choo.
    In my opinion that is a fair deal. Blue Jays are getting a 26 year old lefty with contract control and has already tapped into his potential. He is just entering his prime.

    JPA is a decent player. He has power but lets face it he is a .220 hitter. Gose and Syndergaard are both to risky for the Mets to accept just one in a deal. I don't see the Mets taking a deal of just JPA, Gose. I think Syndergaard would need to be included. In no way is is Gose and JPA an equivalent talent to Niese. If Gose reaches close to his ceiling its different but more talented players fail then succeed.


    Presenting the 2013 New York Mets Outfield.

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