Trade With Toronto?

[Claymation]

No its not, but you could trade Murphy + for him.

[dunbummin]

Absolutely, lets try and get JP Arencibia.
I think Duda's furniture injury will hurt more than his production last year.
Just our luck.

I would rather trade Mejiaa vs Gee to be honest.
Who is Lawley?

Duda's injury will heal before spring, but it further complicates the ability to trade him over the winter.

I'd rather trade Mejia too, but he is still a prospect, and so there is more uncertainty about him than Gee, who has shown pretty good stuff at the major league level. Gee is therefore worth more in trade. Subbing Mejia, you would probably have to add elsewhere.

Dustin Lawley is a young (23) versatile (3B/OF) kid who lost a little of his luster this past season. Prior to 2012 his minor league SLG was .510 so he showed some pop. I included him as a throw in.

[dunbummin]

JPA is nothing special, I would rather give up a boatload for D'Arnaud....need a impact bat for years to come to help out Wright/Davis.

Niese, Flores and Juan Urbina for D'Arnaud, Dustin McGowan and Raja Davis

What do you guys think? We can still have a future rotation with guys like Dickey-Wheeler-Harvey-Gee-Pelfrey-Familia-Mejia-Gorski-Fulmer

Flores doesn't really have a position to play with us anyways.

I agree that he is not very special, but he is a solid, major league catcher, who could blossom. While he's not a high OBP guy, I think he's good for 20 HRs a year or more. Frankly, I'd rather have him than Saltalamacchia, who has also been mentioned in trade talk. But . .

Until now I have been thinking D'Arnaud was untouchable. Today we read that the Jays are considering trading either J.P or Travis and holding on to Buck. So, would I give a boatload to get D'Arnaud? You bet. I hate to part with Flores because I think he could eventually be an impact bat, either at 2B or the OF, although some scouts are of the opinion that he won't stick at 2B and that first is his future. However, if the Jays would include Gose instead of Rajai, I'd give up Wilmer. Also, I don't think Urbina has that much trade value right now, so I might have to include Tapia, and maybe a bit more. So how about . .

Niese, Flores, Tapia, Muno & Ceciliani for D'Arnaud, Gose, Kevin Pillar & Danny Barnes.

Forget Dustin McGowan. He pitched minimally in 2011 after rotator cuff surgery in 2010, then didn't pitch at all in 2012. He had exploratory surgery in August 2012 to check on the shoulder and I haven't heard anything about the results. So I'm putting in two unranked Blue Jay prospects who I think are comers.

And, to answer your question, I think we will still have a very good future rotation with guys like Dickey-Wheeler-Harvey-Gee-Pelfrey-Fulmer-Mazzoni-Montero-Robles-Camarena-Ynoa-Lara. That's what I call depth, although we might have to go with the first five for the next 2 years. I think Familia and Mejia are destined for the pen, and Gorski may join Hefner and McHugh as quality replacements in the event of injury during that time.

[dunbummin]

Gee had a better FIP and XFIP than Niese last year.

I think people forget how good Gee was before he went down.

Saying that, you keep the lefty with the bigger upside.

Arencibia was ok last year but his rWAR was only 1.4.

Is that enough of a significance to warrant trading a solid young SP?

I like Gee too, but Niese clearly has much more trade value.

Actually, I think Arencibia was a little less than OK last year, but he has pop and he could potentially blossom into a nice power hitter while stabilizing our situation behind the plate. Frankly, to get both him and Gose, I would give up Niese. And if they could be persuaded to give up D'Arnaud instead of J.P,. I'd add much more to the deal, as I said in the previous post.

[YoungStuna]

Duda's injury will heal before spring, but it further complicates the ability to trade him over the winter.

I'd rather trade Mejia too, but he is still a prospect, and so there is more uncertainty about him than Gee, who has shown pretty good stuff at the major league level. Gee is therefore worth more in trade. Subbing Mejia, you would probably have to add elsewhere.

Dustin Lawley is a young (23) versatile (3B/OF) kid who lost a little of his luster this past season. Prior to 2012 his minor league SLG was .510 so he showed some pop. I included him as a throw in.

Duda was never going to be traded, and his value was extremely low.

Lawley is not a prospect. Muno barely is as well.

[dunbummin]

Duda was never going to be traded, and his value was extremely low.

I never said he was. (Actually,I did include him in one of the posts, only as a reply to someone who had him in their package, but I didn't mean it. lol) And I did state that his value was low even prior to the foolish injury.

Lawley is not a prospect. Muno barely is as well.

Muno is listed by MLB as our #20 prospect. Lawley is not ranked, but anyone with a pulse and a uniform is a prospect.

All that aside, what do you think of Niese, Flores, Tapia, Muno & Ceciliani for D'Arnaud, Gose, Kevin Pillar & Danny Barnes?

[YoungStuna]

I never said he was. (Actually,I did include him in one of the posts, only as a reply to someone who had him in their package, but I didn't mean it. lol) And I did state that his value was low even prior to the foolish injury.

Muno is listed by MLB as our #20 prospect. Lawley is not ranked, but anyone with a pulse and a uniform is a prospect.

All that aside, what do you think of Niese, Flores, Tapia, Muno & Ceciliani for D'Arnaud, Gose, Kevin Pillar & Danny Barnes?

Muno being our 20th best prospect was not due to being a talented player, just the crazy numbers he put up in the NYPL last year. He won't be anywhere near that this upcoming season.

Lawley is an organizational piece, not a prospect a team would trade for.

[dunbummin]

Muno being our 20th best prospect was not due to being a talented player, just the crazy numbers he put up in the NYPL last year. He won't be anywhere near that this upcoming season.

The jump from Brooklyn to St. Lucie (a pitchers league) is a big one. Ceciliani was only moved up one slot to Savannah after putting up similar crazy numbers in Brooklyn, and he slipped even more than Muno did. I think Ceciliani acquitted himself well in St. Lucie this year, although it was only 99 PAs due to his injury. I think he put himself back into the trading chip picture. We'll have to see if Muno rebounds this year. I'm wondering if they will move him up to Binghamton, or have him start the season back in St. Lucie.

[YoungStuna]

The jump from Brooklyn to St. Lucie (a pitchers league) is a big one. Ceciliani was only moved up one slot to Savannah after putting up similar crazy numbers in Brooklyn, and he slipped even more than Muno did. I think Ceciliani acquitted himself well in St. Lucie this year, although it was only 99 PAs due to his injury. I think he put himself back into the trading chip picture. We'll have to see if Muno rebounds this year. I'm wondering if they will move him up to Binghamton, or have him start the season back in St. Lucie.

Muno was 23 years old and was at the appropriate league. He's just not that good. He's probably a utility guy at best. Ceciliani has better tools than Muno and can play CF. He's a pretty decent prospect unlike the other two.

[Sick Of It All]

Always been a fan of Ceciliani and Muno to me is an organizational guy, but could find himself making it to the majors because of his offensive skills.

[dunbummin]

Always been a fan of Ceciliani and Muno to me is an organizational guy, but could find himself making it to the majors because of his offensive skills.

I've liked them both, although neither seems to be that highly regarded by the pundits. I don't know if Muno will stick at SS, but if his bat holds up, he'll find a place on some major league roster.

[YoungStuna]

Muno is a 2B or 3B and he's got plenty to prove with the bat.

[dunbummin]

Muno is a 2B or 3B and he's got plenty to prove with the bat.

True. But he has a few years to prove it. IMO, the jury is still out.

[YoungStuna]

True. But he has a few years to prove it. IMO, the jury is still out.

Not really. He's going to be 24 years old, and he's unproven in AA. He looks like a Justin Turner-type at best.

[Rio40]

Niese, Flores, Kirk, Tapia, Murphy for Gose and D'Arnaud.