Organizational Philosophy Discussion Thread

[KyleJRM]

The WC is a problem, but I don't see much difference between a 98-win juggernaut and an 88-win division winner.

[cubswin25]

Make real arguments.

I'm still waiting on you to do that. All we are getting is bias comments from you and you keep backing yourself in a corner with it. So when we catch you we gotta laugh.

[DavidH]

The goal is to make the playoffs as many times as possible with an elite team that can win the world series. Not to just be a one and done wild card team that if the moon and stars align right you win the world series.

A - This is not a counter to anything I said. I was countering what you said in that making the playoffs 1 year would be fine as long as that one year resulted in a World Series. Great, but you can't really set out to do that. You can set out to make the playoffs a bunch and hopefully win a World Series, though.


B - The worst team in the playoffs has just about as good a chance as the best team to win a World Series. That equation actually is altered a bit with the new system, but whoever wins that wild card one game playoff game has just about as good a chance as the team who dominated their division with 99 wins.

[KyleJRM]

LOL please give it up your comments keep getting bias keeps getting worse. So DeJesus is a bad deal at 1.5 WAR at 4 million. Yet Soriano is a asset to the team and a good leftover by Hendry and a useful piece. With his 1.8 WAR last year at 18 million. That comment there just proves everyones point about you. Please go and hide now.

I was using fWAR, which had Soriano significantly better than that. Which of course, leads us down the ugly rabbit hole of choosing which WAR to believe and which defensive metrics don't suck.

[cubswin25]

Either way I'm about done here. I get it Theo/Jed are evil, and Hendry wasn't that bad. Why? Because Hendry tried to win at all cost, a few years it worked and a lot of years it didn't. Theo/Jed are willing to give up winning now in hope to win a lot in the future. You don't have patience or trust anyone enough to do it this way. Which is fine and I know some fans out there feel like you do. But I'm not one of them and like the route they are going. Anyways lets just end this here and hope the Cubs can make some good moves the rest of the off season that make both of us happy. Have a good night.

[KyleJRM]

You too!

[CUBluejays]

I don't know much about the players involved to know if those ended up looking bad, but I guess not.

Just figured I'd throw the deals out there since that was the one time Hoyer was buying at the deadline.

Those aren't even close. Tejada and Ludwick were decent players at the time Hoyer went for them. Anytime you trade prospects for vets at the deadline, you can always look bad.

Lynch traded his top pitching prospect for a reliever with 5.15 ERA, 4.7 BB/9, 7.4 K/9. He just plain sucked. He sucked when the Cubs traded for him, he sucked after the Cubs got him. He still sucks at life. Heredia wasn't much better with a 5.49 ERA. Noel at least bombed, Orie was also a bust already. I forgot Speier turned into something decent though. Then he dropped the hole dynamics of baseball quote. God, he sucked.

McLeod:Hendry I can buy into.

[DavidH]

Either way I'm about done here. I get it Theo/Jed are evil, and Hendry wasn't that bad. Why? Because Hendry tried to win at all cost, a few years it worked and a lot of years it didn't. Theo/Jed are willing to give up winning now in hope to win a lot in the future. You don't have patience or trust anyone enough to do it this way. Which is fine and I know some fans out there feel like you do. But I'm not one of them and like the route they are going. Anyways lets just end this here and hope the Cubs can make some good moves the rest of the off season that make both of us happy. Have a good night.

I just wish they'd try more now. I mean, hell, they already get to add a top end draft class to last year's and the year before's. Another tank job isn't really needed in that regard. This team can be more respectable and watchable than it seems like it's being made to be, and like Kyle says, if the team stays bad it seems like it's going to be difficult to make that jump whenever the time is to start "trying."


I'm very happy with where the team is headed with regard to the farm system, the organizational infrastructure, the actual infrastructure, etc. but I'm not happy with the disregard being shown for major league results.

But they have been improving the bullpen in the short term...and that alone would be pretty weird if they leave OF and 3B situations as is, so I guess I'll just wait and see what the 2013 team looks like come spring.

[davell]

Missed a couple pages, but as was mentioned, comparing the NL Central to the AL East was absurd Kyle. If given a 10 year run, under this current plan being executed, I think 6 playoff appearances is very plausible. I can't say that about adding throughout. If we have the resources to carry 160-180 million payroll, its an easy yes. But we don't know that and I honestly doubt it winds up being the case personally. At least until we have a better TV deal and/or the renovations get done. Which turns into another debate that until something is proved one way or the other, is obviously just going to be conjecture on both sides.

[KyleJRM]

Comparing the NL Central and AL East is exactly as absurd as comparing Red Sox Epstein to Cubs Epstein.

[CUBluejays]

A - This is not a counter to anything I said. I was countering what you said in that making the playoffs 1 year would be fine as long as that one year resulted in a World Series. Great, but you can't really set out to do that. You can set out to make the playoffs a bunch and hopefully win a World Series, though.


B - The worst team in the playoffs has just about as good a chance as the best team to win a World Series. That equation actually is altered a bit with the new system, but whoever wins that wild card one game playoff game has just about as good a chance as the team who dominated their division with 99 wins.

Because we don't disagree. I don't care if the Cubs get to the playoffs as a 88-100 game winner if they've got the talent. If your looking to Orioles your way into the playoffs then I think the chances of winning the world series are about the same as the 2012 Cubs chances.

[davell]

Comparing the NL Central and AL East is exactly as absurd as comparing Red Sox Epstein to Cubs Epstein.

No, its certainly not. He's the same guy. You can't expect him to act the same way when the two franchises he inherited were worlds apart in talent. If he acted the same way, had us inching towards 150 mill right now, we'd likely be thinking just as we were after the last spending spree-We're going to be screwed in a few years. Thats not what he's shooting for obviously.

[KyleJRM]

I can promise you that's not what I'd be thinking.

[KyleJRM]

I don't berate them.

I will openly question people who are pissed off because we're not doing something because they were under the impression and assumption we would. Just reading what people thought we were going to do pre-offseason you could tell this board was prime for a huge offseason. Nothing this team has done to suggest that. A lot of people have set themselves up for disappointment.

Disagree with the direction. Don't come on here whining and pissy that we're not signing Greinke as if this team was going to be in play for him and Theo Epstein is just lazy and stupid.

I do agree it's a little silly to be surprised. But disappointment is certainly justified.

Saying it's OK that we aren't planning on going after the best players because it's not the plan to go after them is just begging the question.

[1908_Cubs]

I do agree it's a little silly to be surprised. But disappointment is certainly justified.

Saying it's OK that we aren't planning on going after the best players because it's not the plan to go after them is just begging the question.

It's begging the question. It also doesn't mean you need to come on here and flip your **** like a few people have about how we're not in on Josh Hamilton, is all.

Be disappointed if you want. I just don't see a point throwing up a lot of cuss words (and this coming from a cuss word connoisseur) about not being connected to the big-boy names. That kind of stuff just seems like an extreme overreaction.