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  1. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubswin25 View Post
    I'd still like to know what Hoyer did to make him such a terrible GM as well.
    He's about to have his fourth shot without fielding a single playoff team. He did a horror show job of finding cheap, replacement-level players for last year's Cubs.

  2. #692
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    MacPhail came to the Cubs as a highly respected young executive who had GMed his previous team to two WS titles.

    He came in, promised to build through the farm system and made a significant increase in organizational infrastructure his main priority. He was authorized to spend a fair amount of money, but chose not to.

    And he knew a thing or two about hiring people to bring in elite talent. His early scouting and development director brought the team's farm system to the best in baseball in the early 2000s before being promoted to GM.

    Yeah, there's no parallel there.

    Again you sway things for your point of view. Which you can't judge unless they are similar people or styles. Plus as I pointed out there was no Jason McLeod, Jed Hoyer and others with him. Now maybe if Andy brought over His early scouting and development director brought the team's farm system it would be more of a pararell there. Theo never tried to pretend he was going to do this all on his own and just hire new people. He brought in two guys who helped him be successful.
    "Too big, too strong, too fast, too good"

  3. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    He's about to have his fourth shot without fielding a single playoff team. He did a horror show job of finding cheap, replacement-level players for last year's Cubs.
    I hate to nitpick but I have to take issue with you continually trying to evaluate a front office based on playoff appearances. It's tantamount to judging a pitcher based on wins, and it treats a 90 win and a 60 win season as one and the same.

  4. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlin Bystro View Post
    They do. It's absolutely shocking how bad Concepcion is and people were throwing him in our top 10 based upon hearsay.
    I guess we can pray that mono was the culprit.

  5. #695
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubswin25 View Post
    Again you sway things for your point of view. Which you can't judge unless they are similar people or styles. Plus as I pointed out there was no Jason McLeod, Jed Hoyer and others with him. Now maybe if Andy brought over His early scouting and development director brought the team's farm system it would be more of a pararell there. Theo never tried to pretend he was going to do this all on his own and just hire new people. He brought in two guys who helped him be successful.
    I think Jim Hendry:Jason McLeod and Ed Lynch:Jed Hoyer are pretty good comps.

    Hendry had fantastic success as scouting and development director.

  6. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidH View Post
    I hate to nitpick but I have to take issue with you continually trying to evaluate a front office based on playoff appearances. It's tantamount to judging a pitcher based on wins, and it treats a 90 win and a 60 win season as one and the same.
    Disagree. Playoff appearances are the only good way to judge. Especially because you can adjust your resource commitment throughout the season as you see how many wins it will likely take to make the playoffs.

    But if you prefer, I guess I can calculate up Hoyer's record as a GM.

  7. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    He's about to have his fourth shot without fielding a single playoff team. He did a horror show job of finding cheap, replacement-level players for last year's Cubs.
    LOL yeah he's really got to spend a lot of money during his run there. Hmm.. Anthony Rizzo, Paul Maholm, David DeJesus what a terrible job. I will give it to you that he missed on Ian Stewart, but who knows if he would have turned his season around or not if he doesn't get hurt. Anyways since you are such a great GM. Who are these guys he should have signed. Of course for the money they planned to spend.
    "Too big, too strong, too fast, too good"

  8. #698
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    DeJesus wasn't all that great of a job. He doesn't belong in the good column. He's a sub-average OFer.

    Meanwhile, he put together a horrific bullpen, and gave Joe Mather, Chris Volstad and Steve Clevenger jobs out of spring training. And, as you mentioned, got completely destroyed in the Stewart trade.

    You can do a board archive search here or elsewhere if you want yet another of the millions of alternative offseasons that have been posted.

    For David, Hoyer's career W% as a GM is .458, or an average of 74-88.

  9. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    I think Jim Hendry:Jason McLeod and Ed Lynch:Jed Hoyer are pretty good comps.

    Hendry had fantastic success as scouting and development director.

    Someone bias and reaching would say something like this.
    "Too big, too strong, too fast, too good"

  10. #700
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    And this isn't the thread for the Ian Stewart debate, but Ian Stewart's wrist has been bothering him consistently since 2005. It was stupid to think it was healed.

  11. #701
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubswin25 View Post
    Someone bias and reaching would say something like this.
    Are you familiar with Hendry's record as scouting and development director?

  12. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    There's a difference between taking a salary dump like that and getting a player like Ramirez in his early 20s because they don't want to



    The best way to get elite talent is to buy it. If you do suck, drafting it is a nice side effect, but even then you can't really count on it because some team might Astros you out of the No. 1 pick, which is where the great value is.



    It'd take even less time if they started this offseason instead of screapheaping.



    It was 6/9, and disagree. His reputation in Boston was built on sustained excellence, not grabbing a few hot weeks in the playoff crapshoot.
    Justin Upton, David Price, etc... Young talent can still be had, although it would be easier if somebody would give Bienfest (?) a GM job again.

    The best way used to be to buy it, it isn't hitting the free agent market like it once was. Those pesky teams using their TV money and all.

    Greinke is the only guy that will speed things up, maybe Hamilton. Everybody else will be obtainable on the free agent market in some version.

  13. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    Disagree. Playoff appearances are the only good way to judge. Especially because you can adjust your resource commitment throughout the season as you see how many wins it will likely take to make the playoffs.

    But if you prefer, I guess I can calculate up Hoyer's record as a GM.
    And I guess pitchers can just pitch free and easy with a big lead and rest up for their next start.

    You don't really think that, in a vacuum (in both cases) playoff appearances are a better measure than a team's total W-L record. You can't. I don't believe you.

  14. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post

    For David, Hoyer's career W% as a GM is .458, or an average of 74-88.
    Once again, I took issue with the argument you were making in an abstract sense. I don't think it changes much with regard to how Hoyer's major league teams have done.

  15. #705
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    I think it's more complicated than choosing one or the other, for sure.

    Going with straight wins is the sort of thing that makes you think the Blue Jays had a great half-decade. I'm willing to accept that occasionally good teams just miss the playoffs, but there is an ability of a GM to cash in playoff appearances.

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