Organizational Philosophy Discussion Thread

[CUBluejays]

Because it was a 58 game injury shortened season. It was also well outside his career norms.

[gaughan333]

Because it was a 58 game injury shortened season. It was also well outside his career norms.

this will probably get ignored because it makes sense

[KyleJRM]

It's not going to be ignored, but the people evaluating prospects at the time obviously thought there was something there. There's no reason to say "other than his peak, he didn't have much of a peak prospect value."

[Str1fe5]

Why on earth wouldn't I be biased towards my own viewpoint? What a bizzare complaint.

Kyle, you are clearly biased. We're all biased, but you take it to a level where you are completely dismissive of anybody else's viewpoint, and you've been arguing the same point, more or less, for months and months. That's what I'm complaining about, the lack of nuance. We've bludgeoned this dead horse past all recognition. Same thing with Gato and his strange faith that the Cubs will start spending like drunken sailors in an effort to make next year's team a WS contender. There's no in between for you. Everything the current administration has said and done on the major league side of things has been wrong, at least from a big picture stand point.

[KyleJRM]

Arguing hard for my point is not dismissive of other people's points. I don't argue with anybody who isn't a willing participant.

Why would my argument change when the situation hasn't materially changed?

This all just reeks of sour grapes that maybe I'm a little too good at making my case.

"Everything they do is wrong" is just whiny. I've spoken positively about many of their moves.

[gaughan333]

It's not going to be ignored, but the people evaluating prospects at the time obviously thought there was something there. There's no reason to say "other than his peak, he didn't have much of a peak prospect value."

so when scouts or others around baseball disagree with points they don't know everything, but when they support your argument, we should defer to them? Got it.

[gaughan333]

Arguing hard for my point is not dismissive of other people's points. I don't argue with anybody who isn't a willing participant.

Why would my argument change when the situation hasn't materially changed?

This all just reeks of sour grapes that maybe I'm a little too good at making my case.

"Everything they do is wrong" is just whiny. I've spoken positively about many of their moves.

I literally just laughed out loud.

[KyleJRM]

Nobody said you should defer to them. You should simply evaluate all of the information.

Kelton was briefly a highly regarded prospect and frequently a strong back of the top 10 one. I think we can all agree on that.

[cubswin25]

This all just reeks of sour grapes that maybe I'm a little too good at making my case.

Nah sorry not at all. I thought it might turn into a good debate. But your points turned beyond silly.

[KyleJRM]

"Silly" is code for "I can't handle them or argue against them, so I'll just call them silly." But remember, I'm the big meany who is dismissive of other people's views, right? I don't need to say "Your argument is silly, so I wont' listen to it." I can just argue against it.

Epstein inherited a team that had a handful of very interesting MLB players, a few near-ready prospects, and a *ton* of money to spend. If he didn't think he was capable of turning that into a winning team with two offseasons to work with, while simultaneously improving the scouting and organizational infrastructure, then he was the wrong man for the job.

[gaughan333]

"Silly" is code for "I can't handle them or argue against them, so I'll just call them silly."

Epstein inherited a team that had a handful of very interesting MLB players, a few near-ready prospects, and a *ton* of money to spend. If he didn't think he was capable of turning that into a winning team with two offseasons to work with, while simultaneously improving the scouting and organizational infrastructure, then he was the wrong man for the job.

except people have argued against you and gato for months. Its just old at this point. He may be the wrong man for your job...how do you know this isn't what Ricketts wants? Maybe he doesn't want the giant pay roll for a few years.

[KyleJRM]

except people have argued against you and gato for months. Its just old at this point. He may be the wrong man for your job...how do you know this isn't what Ricketts wants? Maybe he doesn't want the giant pay roll for a few years.

This thread was created specifically for people like me who do not get tired of arguing about it.

If you think it's old, don't engage.

Ricketts has said that Epstein has a free hand. Briefly before hiring Epstein, Ricketts was on the record saying he didn't think the team needed a full rebuild and could be turned around quickly. It doesn't make much sense to posit that this is Ricketts' doing, unless that was all subterfuge for some reason.

[gaughan333]

This thread was created specifically for people like me who do not get tired of arguing about it.

If you think it's old, don't engage.

Ricketts has said that Epstein has a free hand. Briefly before hiring Epstein, Ricketts was on the record saying he didn't think the team needed a full rebuild and could be turned around quickly. It doesn't make much sense to posit that this is Ricketts' doing, unless that was all subterfuge for some reason.

you wanna come in and say "I'm cutting payroll for a few years"?

[gaughan333]

This thread was created specifically for people like me who do not get tired of arguing about it.

If you think it's old, don't engage.

Ricketts has said that Epstein has a free hand. Briefly before hiring Epstein, Ricketts was on the record saying he didn't think the team needed a full rebuild and could be turned around quickly. It doesn't make much sense to posit that this is Ricketts' doing, unless that was all subterfuge for some reason.

Pulling a Gato here, show me the exact words where he said that. Can you also show me where Theo Epstein is just here to hang out until he goes back to Boston? If he took a job here, it doesn't make much sense to posit that it was just to wait til he can go back to boston

[cubswin25]

"Silly" is code for "I can't handle them or argue against them, so I'll just call them silly."

Whatever makes yourself feel better. But I think coming up with theories how all GM's not trying to win now think Theo is doing a bad job. Or the theory that he doesn't really care about this job and is just passing time and having fun til he goes back to Boston speak for themsevles. Overall it's pretty clear you don't like Theo or anything he's doing. So you are always going to look at things in a negative way. Your comments beyond made that clear. One last example of that is well he never developed a good farm for a bad team and other ridiculous stuff like that. It's one thing to have a opinion on something, but you have to be at least objective and mention what he is doing well. So sorry if some things you said were so ridiculous and off base that I didn't waste my time to argue against.