Organizational Philosophy Discussion Thread

[CUBluejays]

I made my points. You said something incredibly stupid in response. If you had responded like you just did, instead of you're whole "OH MAN YOU SAID THERE'S NO CHANCE" and "LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE SEASONS BESIDES THE IMMEDIATE ONE IN THE ORGANIZATIONAL PHILOSOPHY THREAD," you would have gotten a different response. I called that stupid, correctly. You can be as offended as you want, but you brought it on yourself.

I never once said you couldn't talk about future seasons, my simple response was that it was stupid to claim that if the Cubs didn't do something amazing and drastic this instant that 2014 and 2015 rotations would be awful. I'm not offended that some random guy on the internet doesn't think that I understand what "if" means. You gave snark, and you got snark back.

I think that's foolishly optimistic. He might be able to do the same next year, but he's done it precisely once.

Then maybe we should wait for the 2013 season and see if he can. I think it equally foolsih to assume that he can't.

I'd find it very amazing if the Cubs both wanted to resign him and he wanted to resign with the Cubs.

He might just be the pitcher on the market next year as a free agent. The Cubs will have money to spend. I haven't seen/heard rumors of him being unhappy in Chicago. If it is his twitter account he seems pretty excited playing for the Cubs, so I wouldn't find it amazing at all.

When a guy keeps getting bounced back to AAA, you should wonder if maybe you should count him as a full portion of a non-awful rotation.

We may be talking about different a different definition of awful. Mine is Belkin/Germano/Rusin etc... Wood eats innings, throws left handed and is ok as a 5th starter in an anti-awful rotation. Many teams will trot out worse then him next year.

Huge potential for awful there.

Baker has the potential to be quite good as well. There are a whole bunch of pitchers in the next free agent class who could fill a 4/5 role pretty easily.

It would take some dramatic good fortune for a college SP to emerge who could hit the majors and succeed n less than a year in the minors, let alone have him drop to No. 2 in the draft.

Appel went 8th last year and he was thought to be pretty close to big league ready last year. Now the Cubs may not pick him, but he could easily end up in the majors by mid-2014 or 2015. It isn't that big of a stretch.

Probably not. It might happen, but pretty much only the Cubs internally seem to think he can stick as a starter. And I think that's more desperation than scouting.

It comes back to that whole letting the 2013 season play out. We should have a pretty good idea of what he can/can't do in a few months.

I'm still waiting for all those young starting pitchers we got in exchange for last year's trade deadline haul to show up.

Last year's trade market did end up disappointing. Vizcaino might/might not be that guy, but he's got the stuff to give him a chance. The trades the made seemed to be a decent return, so I'm willing to give them a chance to see what they can do.

Could your Samardzija get hurt, Garza leave as a free agent, Vizcaino end up in the bullpen or with 1 arm, Wood suck. Yes, and that is going to be the only way the Cubs end up with an awful rotation in 2014. Samardzija could also become a TOR pitcher, Garza resigns, Wood becomes a decent #5, Tampa Bay trades Price to the Cubs. That could happen as well, so why don't we let 2013 play out first.

[KyleJRM]

With the addition of Big Ticket Free Agent Edwin Jackson on a Long-Term Deal That Takes Him Past 30, I'd like to declare victory in the Organizational Philosophy Wars. I'm glad Theo and Jed finally see it my way.

So long as they don't turn around and so something silly like trade Soriano without having a replacement in the OF, I'm quite happy with this offseason.

[SenorGato]

With the addition of Big Ticket Free Agent Edwin Jackson on a Long-Term Deal That Takes Him Past 30, I'd like to declare victory in the Organizational Philosophy Wars. I'm glad Theo and Jed finally see it my way.

So long as they don't turn around and so something silly like trade Soriano without having a replacement in the OF, I'm quite happy with this offseason.

Not only is this hilarious, but it's hilarious because it is true.

Very happy with this move because of the implication, and agreed that they have had a very strong offseason so far. Still need an OFer, preferably a CF. I'm just glad that "avoid talent" and "tank the crap out of yet another season" is done with....

[RedHeadsRule]

Were there really a bunch of people against this deal or on board for another 100 loss season, or were people annoyed by the constant ****ing about the FO, Joe Mather, and 2012?

[hrubes20]

I've stayed out of this whole debate, but isn't the Jackson signing evidence that neither side was right? The Cubs did spend some money on Jackson, so obviously the plan wasn't to just sit on all the money and tank a year, but they also did not sign Hamilton, Greinke, Sanchez, Upton, Bourn (although it's a slight possibility), Swisher, Victorino, Napoli, Pagan, etc, which tells me that they still don't think it's "the right time".

[KyleJRM]

Were there really a bunch of people against this deal or on board for another 100 loss season, or were people annoyed by the constant ****ing about the FO, Joe Mather, and 2012?

Happy VW Day to you too, sir!

[SenorGato]

Were there really a bunch of people against this deal or on board for another 100 loss season, or were people annoyed by the constant ****ing about the FO, Joe Mather, and 2012?

Not against this deal, but against this TYPE of deal...A long term commitment to a player who is dangerously close to 30. There's that - there's that they planned to tank 2013 for draft position *again* for the sake of collecting draft money to buy prospects....That a potentially .500/competent/competitive team wouldn't even be hinted at until 2014...

[davell]

As a very outspoken guy in favor of the rebuild, I'm not sure signing E-Jax proves anything. Other than our FO is intelligent. It's a 4 year deal, not mega-money, that suggests 2014 being much more of a possibility than 2015. If they go get Bourn and lose a pick in the process(no, I'm not saying I'm even against it), I'll be the first to admit the other side was right in what the intentions are. At any rate, a move for E-Jax unites(or should) everyone, because it shows a glimpse of whats coming. Whether its next week, next month, or next year.

[gaughan333]

4 year deals are "long term deals"?

[SenorGato]

As a very outspoken guy in favor of the rebuild, I'm not sure signing E-Jax proves anything. Other than our FO is intelligent. It's a 4 year deal, not mega-money, that suggests 2014 being much more of a possibility than 2015. If they go get Bourn and lose a pick in the process(no, I'm not saying I'm even against it), I'll be the first to admit the other side was right in what the intentions are. At any rate, a move for E-Jax unites(or should) everyone, because it shows a glimpse of whats coming. Whether its next week, next month, or next year.

Also that 2013 is not the throwaway year that so many were calling for or claiming it would be. That seems to have become a forgotten little tidbit - that this team desperately needed yet another high draft pick and the money that comes with it so they could sow even more seeds on the farm. I can't emphasize enough how happy I am that that vision is so wrong...

[davell]

Yeah, THAT part of what I've been saying appears to be wrong. I think. A deadline selloff this year likely has enough depth sitting behind it to where a top 5ish pick in 2014 is unrealistic, without unforeseen circumstances. It'll be a very interesting next month and a half, thats for certain. That said, the one thing I've DEFINITELY been wrong on is adding 4 of the top 15 FA SP. Really thought other teams would be much more aggressive and we'd be lucky to get two. Now, we can sit back and see if a team gets desperate to overpay us on one of ours.

[rcal10]

I think the next move or two is the real tell to what the Cubs plans are. If they go ahead and sign Bourn and then trade either Shark or Garza for a proven major league talent then they are upping the time frame to next year. Something like Shark and whoever for Headley definitely raises the bar for the 2013 team. A line up of Bourn, Castro, Rizzo, Soriano, Headley, DeJesus, Castillo, Barney is not bad. And the rotation would be solid as well. But they can also deal Shark for minor league talent, and Garza too for that matter. And then the team wouldn't really be much different than the 2012 team. So they would still get a high draft pick plus have all the prospects from Garza and Shark deals. So, to me it still remains to be seen the plans on 2013. But to me it is at least more exciting then it was a few days ago.

[StrandedCub]

Were there really a bunch of people against this deal or on board for another 100 loss season, or were people annoyed by the constant ****ing about the FO, Joe Mather, and 2012?

The latter.

[Jack the Ripper]

With the addition of Big Ticket Free Agent Edwin Jackson on a Long-Term Deal That Takes Him Past 30, I'd like to declare victory in the Organizational Philosophy Wars. I'm glad Theo and Jed finally see it my way.

So long as they don't turn around and so something silly like trade Soriano without having a replacement in the OF, I'm quite happy with this offseason.

You're not serious are you? This is why I don't come in here.

[1908_Cubs]

With the addition of Big Ticket Free Agent Edwin Jackson on a Long-Term Deal That Takes Him Past 30, I'd like to declare victory in the Organizational Philosophy Wars. I'm glad Theo and Jed finally see it my way.

So long as they don't turn around and so something silly like trade Soriano without having a replacement in the OF, I'm quite happy with this offseason.

I wouldn't go that far, Kyle.