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  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by terencem View Post
    Put yourselves in the shoes of the Ricketts. Your team has just lost 91 games with a $134 MM payroll entering the season. Why the **** would you give your front office another $130-140 MM the next season? Why would any business owner do that?
    Almost any business has a philosophy or a goal of "Maximizing Profits". The philosophy part comes in on how to do that. Fans are not known for worrying about profits or 5 years from now. Should we worry about how much money the Ricketts family makes? What drives me is the Cubs winning. That does not always match with maxing profits. I am not concerned about 5 years from now or the Ricketts making money. I am concerned about winning next year. I think the Cubs could have been much better next year by going with around a $130-$140 million in payroll. I think they now have about $60 million committed to payroll. They could have purchased some a good pair of starting pitchers and a strong outfielder and some middle relief for that kind of payroll. From a fans viewpoint that would be great but the Ricketts know they can still bring in the fans with a team that loses 100 games. This way they can maximize profits by keeping the payroll down. Maybe $90 million at max. They also will likely dump $!9 mil when they get rid of Soriano and maybe dump Garza's salary of $10 mil +. They can put $40-$50 more million in their bank account rather than spend money on payroll. They tell the fans their Alice in Wonderland story about the future of being a constant contender sometime in the future. Apparently most are buying into it. The Ricketts also talk of remodeling Wrigley. That is a good idea. Do remember that is a Capital Expenditure and will be depreciated over the years for tax purposes so it is a good investment as it lowers their tax bill a lot.

    Owners in the past have opted to dork the fans for profits. The Marlins of old and the present by selling off their good players even after winning the World Series. The Ricketts are still a mystery to me but I will have a much better idea by the start of spring training. If one of the major markets in baseball goes into 2013 with a $70-$80 million payroll then prepare to be had. When you have drawn over 3 million fans for 6 consecutive years it does not make much sense to drop the payroll and claim that it is for the future success of the team. Sounds very much like a snake oil salesman. I think they could keep this payroll low for some years to max profits and then sell the team after the WGN contract kicks in and make an enormous profit on the sale of the franchise. Meantime the fans may or may not keep buying the tickets win or lose.

    "By late August, the Red Sox had lost their way and didn’t hesitate to trade away some of Theo Epstein’s big-money guys – Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford, Josh Beckett – to a Los Angeles Dodgers team pumped up by a new ownership group and a huge upcoming television deal." Well done Theo and well done Money Ball. Theo left under a lot of pressure and we had to give the Sox a player in return. He is a salesman first class and now has the Ricketts under his spell or they jointly have Cub fans under their spell. We deserve better but as usual money will win out in the end.

  2. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972 Cubs View Post
    The Cubs got Lee & Ramirez by taking advantage of small market teams with a limited budget.
    Oh really, I thought they traded players?
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  3. #453
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    If you can't trust your front office with $130m, why on earth did you hire them?

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaughan333 View Post
    Oh really, I thought they traded players?
    The Cubs traded prospects for players the small market teams could no longer afford. That is how they took advantage then and is what they should be doing now.

  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    Just about everything was wrong with the old. From rookie ball, to AAA, to the bigs. It's been arguably the worst organization is all of sports.

    They are adding while cleaning house. Trust me, they are not gonna wait for players to develop. That may never happen, or take too long. They will hit the FA market when it's the right time and positions. Right now, is not the time. Again, it's been one year, and the strides that they've taken are gigantic!

    Not every move has to be a blockbuster. This team is gonna be great for years and years to come when it starts. It's just not gonna start right now.
    What is your basis for all this hope ? When is the right time to hit the market ? The progress has been made on the farm but not the major league team. Why are you opposed to filling needs now ? Why does the old regimes players need to be removed ?

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972 Cubs View Post
    The Cubs traded prospects for players the small market teams could no longer afford. That is how they took advantage then and is what they should be doing now.
    Unfortunately, small market teams are in much better shape financially than they were in the early 2000s, and such opportunities are going to become much rarer.

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972 Cubs View Post
    The Cubs traded prospects for players the small market teams could no longer afford. That is how they took advantage then and is what they should be doing now.
    I don't really understand the differentiation between prospects and players...Choi for instance had 100 MLB games played at the time he was traded. This more than likely would have been enough major league service time for him to lose prospect status.
    #Turtlepower

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  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaughan333 View Post
    I don't really understand the differentiation between prospects and players...Choi for instance had 100 MLB games played at the time he was traded. This more than likely would have been enough major league service time for him to lose prospect status.
    Traded cheap for expensive - The point is the Cubs took advantage of a small market team looking to dump salary.

  9. #459
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    Sorry Kyle. I don't agree in any way, shape, or form with the "slightly below average" junk. As a life long Cubs fan, I recognize a loser when I see one. To not win anything for 104 years makes this about the closest thing to a "no argument" as you can get.

    Also, last year, Fox Sports had the Cubs second worst franchise only to the Clippers.

  10. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972 Cubs View Post
    Traded cheap for expensive - The point is the Cubs took advantage of a small market team looking to dump salary.
    and you need to have those cheap players to do that. I don't get your point
    #Turtlepower

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  11. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaughan333 View Post
    and you need to have those cheap players to do that. I don't get your point
    You started with the question on how the Cubs got Lee and Ramirez. The point was they were able to take advantage of small market teams that could no longer afford good players while the Cubs gave cheap unproven players to acquire. Again the point is it is better to have young proven players than unproven cheap players/prospects.

  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972 Cubs View Post
    What is your basis for all this hope ? When is the right time to hit the market ? The progress has been made on the farm but not the major league team. Why are you opposed to filling needs now ? Why does the old regimes players need to be removed ?
    Myself........it's no longer hope. I'm very confident that we are gonna be turned around very quickly. I'm looking at 2015.

    I believe that the right time to hit the FA market, is when most of the pieces are in place, and we need a little help to get to the WS.

    You are correct about the farm system progress. But that's where it has to start to be a winning franchise. Whether they become part of the team, or used in trades.

    It's clear that the goal is not to "buy" a team. The plan is for long term success, not short term. The worst thing we can do is to start over paying for players for success they had with another team. Paying someone for their past performance while rebuilding is just not very bright.

    I have noticed that just about every player the Cubs have drafted and "trained", have not been any good. It's clear that the organization does not know how to develop position players. I don't think anybody can argue that. Castro is an exception. Why do you think Rizzo is so good? He's not one of ours, so there was no opportunity to ruin him! LOL!

  13. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    Myself........it's no longer hope. I'm very confident that we are gonna be turned around very quickly. I'm looking at 2015.

    I believe that the right time to hit the FA market, is when most of the pieces are in place, and we need a little help to get to the WS.

    You are correct about the farm system progress. But that's where it has to start to be a winning franchise. Whether they become part of the team, or used in trades.

    It's clear that the goal is not to "buy" a team. The plan is for long term success, not short term. The worst thing we can do is to start over paying for players for success they had with another team. Paying someone for their past performance while rebuilding is just not very bright.

    I have noticed that just about every player the Cubs have drafted and "trained", have not been any good. It's clear that the organization does not know how to develop position players. I don't think anybody can argue that. Castro is an exception. Why do you think Rizzo is so good? He's not one of ours, so there was no opportunity to ruin him! LOL!
    How are you going to acquire the right pieces ? It seems like you are content to wait for a lot of prospects to develop and become impact pieces which is a longshot. You can add players though free agency and trades that still have their peak/prime years ahead of them. Are you willing to throw away another 2 seasons while you hope for 2015 to be your competitive year ?

  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972 Cubs View Post
    How are you going to acquire the right pieces ? It seems like you are content to wait for a lot of prospects to develop and become impact pieces which is a longshot. You can add players though free agency and trades that still have their peak/prime years ahead of them. Are you willing to throw away another 2 seasons while you hope for 2015 to be your competitive year ?
    At this point, we are gonna acquire the right young, inexpensive talent through the draft and trades. I am willing to wait for our prospects to develop. I'm also willing to trade some top prospects for young good players with peak years ahead of them. I don't think any team can build a winning franchise on the draft alone. That's just crazy.

    There was a lot of damage done financially to this team. We are just now starting to free ourselves of some dead weight. I think we're gonna spend money when the time is right. We're gonna win for a long time once it starts. Also, just because we don't see anything right now, doesn't mean that no effort is being made right now. We can't just make moves for the sake of making moves, or to appease the impatient fans.

    We as fans have to remember.....it's a business first. Winning is secondary. Making money is the primary goal.

  15. #465
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    Just now starting to free ourselves from the dead weight? We shed almost all of it last season. There's very little left.

    The whole "we're gonna win for a long time" is very reassuring if you believe it. But it's a lot harder to execute.

    Baseball teams make money by winning. The franchise value and revenue profits for winning vastly dwarfs any pennies you can save by being cheap.

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