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  1. #31
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    I consider Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers to all be top tier quarterbacks. I dont think i could say one is more "elite" then the other.

    props to VCU for the sig!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by elledaddy View Post
    These last few years, the Elite word has been thrown around alot. Every year there is a new QB added or deleted from the " Elite" list. IMO, there is only one true ELITE QB. His name is PEYTON MANNING. And before everybody start throwing all these stats from other QBs at me, Im not going off stats. Im also factoring in other things that the other QBs benefited that Peyton didnt necessarily get to benefit from.

    -Peyton started from day one, obviously on a bad team hence the # 1 pick. Didnt get a chance to sit and learn from watching. Was thrown into the fire from the get go. Starting having real success in just his second year in the league.

    -Peyton didnt have the luxary on playing for an "offensive mind" HC who's QBs tipically have better numbers then QBs with defensive minded HCs.

    -Peyton, while having two great RBs never really had a very good team running game or very good O-Line as a whole. I think he often made the line look better than they were even with a terrifc O-Line coach.

    -Peyton never the benefit of a dominating defense to carry him. He had a few good situational defenses that could protect a lead but not one that would go out and win a game had he had an off game.

    -Peyton, IMO, is the only one who "owns" his offense. I think the other so called " ELITE" QB are almost interchangeable. Brees, Rogers, Brady all could switch teams and that offensive would still operate the same. Brady's offense was Weis and McDaniels, Brees had a couple decent years under Schottenheimer but he became DREW BREES under Payton and Rodgers is under McCarthy. I dont believe that they would have the same success if they did what Peyton does. Just my opinion.

    So here is how I list them( and Im not being a homer for Peyton, Giants fan here)

    Peyton - ELITE

    Brady,Rodgers,Brees - VERY VERY GOOD

    Big Ben - Im kinda stuck with him. He's between VERY VERY GOOD and GOOD

    Eli,Romo,Ryan,Cutler,Flacco,Rivers - GOOD

    The rest are a combination of up and comers,average and below average to me.

    Just how I feel. Thoughts?
    Call a doctor, you must have bumped your head! Brady is as ELITE as they come! Still dont know how you can make this this kind of statement, and NOT use stats either my friend!

  3. #33
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    If your the best player in the NFL Your elite... How can P MANNING be Elite when Rodgers is better? Rodgers/Brady/Brees/PManning are Elite...Those are the guys that are far and away better than everyone else.... Rodgers is 1 and its not close.

    What was meant for me will be Mine once again... THE CHAMP OF CHAMPS IS BACK

  4. #34
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    OP is wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
    What I feel right now is like the satisfaction you feel when a highly judgmental, moralistic televangelist gets caught screwing a male hooker.
    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by homestarunner93 View Post
    Not a bad argument. The funny people in this thread are the stat heads, as if stats prove much of anything in football.
    Stats tell the best story when looking at and comparing individuals....Eye test does nothing because nobody can watch every single player every second of every game.... Wins/Superbowls is more of a team factor...Stats over any lengthy period of time far and away tell you how good the QB is and how well they play their position

    What was meant for me will be Mine once again... THE CHAMP OF CHAMPS IS BACK

  6. #36
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    -Peyton started from day one, obviously on a bad team hence the # 1 pick. Didnt get a chance to sit and learn from watching. Was thrown into the fire from the get go. Starting having real success in just his second year in the league.
    When a team takes a player with the 1st overall pick and pays them tens of millions of dollars its pretty much assumed that they have the starting job.

  7. #37
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    As a Panther fan who HATES the Pats, Brady might be the GOAT QB. He has the stats, the records, the SBs, the MVPs, the regular season wins, the post-season wins, the performances, and above all else, he's still playing and playing at a high level.

    As much as we all like to bicker about Peyton vs Brady, the cold truth is that, unless you insert the phrase, "In my opinion," you don't have much of a case for why Manning is better. I like to think Marino is the GOAT, but that ones extremely difficult to argue. Honestly the only other QB who can probably compete with Brady is Montana, but even then he doesn't have too much ground to compete.

    And just for reference in this thread, can we stop pretending like Peyton has been a one-horse show his entire career? His later Colts days weren't the best, but they weren't bone-dry of talent either. And he's had two future HOF (or deserving, anyway) WRs on his team, as well as a fairly solid OL for much of his career (including now in Denver).

  8. #38
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    dont u dare rank eli manning below roethlisberger...

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNICKS R BACK View Post
    dont u dare rank eli manning below roethlisberger...
    Personally, I do and so do many, many others. Although I could see it going either way.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    If your the best player in the NFL Your elite... How can P MANNING be Elite when Rodgers is better? Rodgers/Brady/Brees/PManning are Elite...Those are the guys that are far and away better than everyone else.... Rodgers is 1 and its not close.
    There can be more than 1 elite player at a position ...

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Stats tell the best story when looking at and comparing individuals....Eye test does nothing because nobody can watch every single player every second of every game.... Wins/Superbowls is more of a team factor...Stats over any lengthy period of time far and away tell you how good the QB is and how well they play their position
    No they don't. You have two fairly equal QBs, one plays on a team with a great OL, running game, and WRs, the other plays with a terrible OL, running game, and WRs. They're equal talents, but the stats are going to favor the first one because his team is better. Stats are merely useful for developing a benchmark on players, not for categorically ranking players 1-10 or 1-15 or whatever. You cannot necessarily determine how good a player is from sttats. Wins and Super Bowls are a totally worthless metric, so I'm glad you at least understand that.





  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by elledaddy View Post
    These last few years, the Elite word has been thrown around alot. Every year there is a new QB added or deleted from the " Elite" list. IMO, there is only one true ELITE QB. His name is PEYTON MANNING. And before everybody start throwing all these stats from other QBs at me, Im not going off stats. Im also factoring in other things that the other QBs benefited that Peyton didnt necessarily get to benefit from.

    -Peyton started from day one, obviously on a bad team hence the # 1 pick. Didnt get a chance to sit and learn from watching. Was thrown into the fire from the get go. Starting having real success in just his second year in the league.

    -Peyton didnt have the luxary on playing for an "offensive mind" HC who's QBs tipically have better numbers then QBs with defensive minded HCs.

    -Peyton, while having two great RBs never really had a very good team running game or very good O-Line as a whole. I think he often made the line look better than they were even with a terrifc O-Line coach.

    -Peyton never the benefit of a dominating defense to carry him. He had a few good situational defenses that could protect a lead but not one that would go out and win a game had he had an off game.

    -Peyton, IMO, is the only one who "owns" his offense. I think the other so called " ELITE" QB are almost interchangeable. Brees, Rogers, Brady all could switch teams and that offensive would still operate the same. Brady's offense was Weis and McDaniels, Brees had a couple decent years under Schottenheimer but he became DREW BREES under Payton and Rodgers is under McCarthy. I dont believe that they would have the same success if they did what Peyton does. Just my opinion.

    So here is how I list them( and Im not being a homer for Peyton, Giants fan here)

    Peyton - ELITE

    Brady,Rodgers,Brees - VERY VERY GOOD

    Big Ben - Im kinda stuck with him. He's between VERY VERY GOOD and GOOD

    Eli,Romo,Ryan,Cutler,Flacco,Rivers - GOOD

    The rest are a combination of up and comers,average and below average to me.

    Just how I feel. Thoughts?
    You should use spell check, it would make your opinion just a tad more intellectual.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhlyHighPhilly View Post
    You should use spell check, it would make your opinion just a tad more intellectual.

    Thats fair and I will attempt to do a better job to make it more comprehensible next time for you. But what part did you not understand that spell check would have helped?

    Mike Woodson NYK

    Record ... 72 - 34

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by homestarunner93 View Post


    I hope for your sake you're being sarcastic.
    No, I am not.

    Stats are the result of all performance. Stats are a way to take all that great ability and performance that we all watch on Sundays and quantify it. Stats aren't the enemy, they are the friend. They give us all a simple way to separate the wheat from the chaff. They give us a way to separate the Peyton Mannings and the Tom Bradys of the world from the Mark Sanchez's and Jimmy Clausens of the world. Ignoring statistics when measuring a players ability leaves you uninformed and in the end has you basing your position on bias, limited information and nothing else.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by homestarunner93 View Post
    No they don't. You have two fairly equal QBs, one plays on a team with a great OL, running game, and WRs, the other plays with a terrible OL, running game, and WRs. They're equal talents, but the stats are going to favor the first one because his team is better...
    How can you say they are equal talents? Results are the final arbiter. All the rest is bluster and speculation.

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