Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 100
  1. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,467
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Let we ignore the "reputation call", people are going to claim the Raptors players are terrible & don't deserve fair treatment, to justify it.

    What is the consensus opinion on refs deciding Raptor games?

    On opening night against Indiana possession was rewarded in a tied game late when the ball was knocked out of bounds in the direction of Greens momentum (The Raptor player had his hands straight up, the ball went flying into the stands). Refs ruled Indiana ball on court just to choose a team (co-incident not the home team), the call was not instinctive (In the moment) it was a late choice (emphasis on choice) which inconclusive video evidence awarded Indiana, due to that late choice.

    Even though people would argue bias in one thinking the ruling should have been Raptors ball to begin with, "the fair decision", if there was that much uncertainty in a tie game that late, would have been to jump ball at centre, not pick a team to award the ball to. They basically decided the game without any assurance of being right.

    What made this decision worse, more obvious, was the delayed choice. If it were an instinctive call, I would have had less issue with it.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Against Utah, 2 late plays, DeRozan had dunks on which he was fouled to close out the game, in both instances he was not rewarded the & 1 which would/could have won the game for TO on both occasions. Ref angle/view not restricted.

    Instead, Utah was rewarded opportunity after opportunity to keep the game close enough to eventually take over in the 3rd overtime.

    If you look at the foul rate of the game & 3 overtimes TO only got calls in the 3rd overtime, after Utah had sealed the lead. Up until that point, Raptors aggression, more specifically Derozan had gone unrewarded, more specifically his & 1's that would have sealed the game on 2 occasions. If not for those (6) late cheap calls, the discrepancy would have been even more lopsided in Utah's favor.

    Were the refs "favoring" the team that loss the lead because TO had not received these same calls when looking to keep or stretch the lead the 4 Q's prior to it's last. The first 2 Q's were called evenly (Even calls benefiting Raptors in having a 3 point lead at the half).

    2nd half Utah = 24 FT's - 1
    If it's "control" why is Utah favoured or for that matter Indiana? They're among the least valuable franchises in the NBA and are operated in smaller markets than Toronto.

    Why does Toronto have as many FTAs as NY or Dallas?
    Last edited by Freakazoid; 11-16-2012 at 05:38 PM.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    3,618
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
    Yeah because basketball is a slow sport and no one complains about referring in soccer.
    you don't get my point do you?

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,467
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by BHF View Post
    you don't get my point do you?
    I did but it was pretty bad. If you think making a call on an open field is harder than making a call on a substantively smaller playing area in a congested zone in a faster sport, then I don't know what to say. Not to mention the fact that you're spotting for more subtle movements when calling for a foul than a offside call.
    Last edited by Freakazoid; 11-16-2012 at 06:58 PM.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    3,618
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
    I did but it was pretty bad. If you think making a call on an open field is harder than making a call on a substantively smaller playing area in a congested zone in a faster sport, then I don't know what to say. Not to mention the fact that you're spotting for more subtle movements when calling for a foul than a offside call.
    yes i do think its harder but i don't think you get what i am saying do you? anyway its bs what they are doing to the raps this season

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,467
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by BHF View Post
    yes i do think its harder but i don't think you get what i am saying do you? anyway its bs what they are doing to the raps this season
    I get what you're saying, it's not like you're saying anything that's inherently abstract.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    13,614
    vCash
    1500
    complaining about the officiating isn't likely going to help our cause at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    18,450
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
    If it's "control" why is Utah favoured or for that matter Indiana? They're among the least valuable franchises in the NBA and are operated in smaller markets than Toronto.

    Why does Toronto have as many FTAs as NY or Dallas?
    ^ Can't compare numbers with circumstance/context. It's not the "amount" as apposed to controlling the tempo & flow of a game. Take Utah for example, the game started out with fairly even officiating, as Raptors took the lead & were looking to stretch that lead Utah ended up with a 24 - 1 ft advantage which Raptors did not see until the 3rd overtime which resulted in a loss.

    ^ The ref for that game was (Foster)

    Here's a write up from an article on Foster.

    "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that NBA ref Scott Foster probably was involved with dirty ref Tim Donaghy on some level. After all, Donaghy made 134 calls to Foster that happened just before, and after, games that Donaghy allegedly bet on. And even worse, Donaghy made more phone calls to Foster over a six-month time period than he did to his own bookie (134 to 126)".

    "During the 2006-07 period under investigation, seven games refereed by Scott Foster had lopsided enough betting on one team to move the point spread by at least 2 points; those seven teams were undefeated against Vegas – meaning that the big-money gamblers won a 7 of 7 times on Foster's games; the odds of that happening randomly are less than 1%".

    http://www.faniq.com/blog/NBA-Ref-Sc...mes-Blog-10294

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    601
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagles4Lyfe View Post
    The Raptors finally decide to complain about reffing like 4 or 5 years to late??? lol

    I can only seeing this making it worse on us
    Maybe not , if fans bring signs to the game questioning the officiating could put them on display if continue to make obvious blown calls.

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    toronto....REX
    Posts
    4,978
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    ^ Can't compare numbers with circumstance/context. It's not the "amount" as apposed to controlling the tempo & flow of a game. Take Utah for example, the game started out with fairly even officiating, as Raptors took the lead & were looking to stretch that lead Utah ended up with a 24 - 1 ft advantage which Raptors did not see until the 3rd overtime which resulted in a loss.

    ^ The ref for that game was (Foster)

    Here's a write up from an article on Foster.

    "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that NBA ref Scott Foster probably was involved with dirty ref Tim Donaghy on some level. After all, Donaghy made 134 calls to Foster that happened just before, and after, games that Donaghy allegedly bet on. And even worse, Donaghy made more phone calls to Foster over a six-month time period than he did to his own bookie (134 to 126)".

    "During the 2006-07 period under investigation, seven games refereed by Scott Foster had lopsided enough betting on one team to move the point spread by at least 2 points; those seven teams were undefeated against Vegas meaning that the big-money gamblers won a 7 of 7 times on Foster's games; the odds of that happening randomly are less than 1%".

    http://www.faniq.com/blog/NBA-Ref-Sc...mes-Blog-10294
    I have always believed that Donaghy wasn't the only one. For you to do what he did you need a couple more refs on your side. Also how does he do that and no other refs question it. You as a ref know when your fellow refs are making shady calls.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    601
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Let we ignore the "reputation call", people are going to claim the Raptors players are terrible & don't deserve fair treatment, to justify it.

    What is the consensus opinion on refs deciding Raptor games?

    On opening night against Indiana possession was rewarded in a tied game late when the ball was knocked out of bounds in the direction of Greens momentum (The Raptor player had his hands straight up, the ball went flying into the stands). Refs ruled Indiana ball on court just to choose a team (co-incident not the home team), the call was not instinctive (In the moment) it was a late choice (emphasis on choice) which inconclusive video evidence awarded Indiana, due to that late choice.

    Even though people would argue bias in one thinking the ruling should have been Raptors ball to begin with, "the fair decision", if there was that much uncertainty in a tie game that late, would have been to jump ball at centre, not pick a team to award the ball to. They basically decided the game without any assurance of being right.

    What made this decision worse, more obvious, was the delayed choice. If it were an instinctive call, I would have had less issue with it.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Against Utah, 2 late plays, DeRozan had dunks on which he was fouled to close out the game, in both instances he was not rewarded the & 1 which would/could have won the game for TO on both occasions. Ref angle/view not restricted.

    Instead, Utah was rewarded opportunity after opportunity to keep the game close enough to eventually take over in the 3rd overtime.

    If you look at the foul rate of the game & 3 overtimes TO only got calls in the 3rd overtime, after Utah had sealed the lead. Up until that point, Raptors aggression, more specifically Derozan had gone unrewarded, more specifically his & 1's that would have sealed the game on 2 occasions. If not for those (6) late cheap calls, the discrepancy would have been even more lopsided in Utah's favor.

    Were the refs "favoring" the team that loss the lead because TO had not received these same calls when looking to keep or stretch the lead the 4 Q's prior to it's last. The first 2 Q's were called evenly (Even calls benefiting Raptors in having a 3 point lead at the half).

    2nd half Utah = 24 FT's - 1
    Good post.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    18,450
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by C_Mund View Post
    I don't disagree but I think there's more to it than just a conspiracy theory. There's some unfathomable calls that go against us and some not-so-good ones. I bet we could easily cut down most of the latter by playing to score and not to get to the line. That's all. If we start blaming all of our losses on the refs and nothing but the refs then we'll be the laughing stock of the league.... or even more so.
    Don't think I said this was a Raptor specific problem, though I do think Raptors have been on the wrong end of "mistakes" to start the season.. Obvious ones at that.

    Sports betting & popularity effect the way a game is officiated,

    Raptors have no "Stars" & I have yet to check which team the "big money" has been on.

    If I had guess, in Fosters officiated game, I would say the big money was on Utah.

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    18,450
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by BALLER R View Post
    I have always believed that Donaghy wasn't the only one. For you to do what he did you need a couple more refs on your side. Also how does he do that and no other refs question it. You as a ref know when your fellow refs are making shady calls.
    Why would he be, did "people" stop betting on the NBA?.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,467
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    ^ Can't compare numbers with circumstance/context. It's not the "amount" as apposed to controlling the tempo & flow of a game. Take Utah for example, the game started out with fairly even officiating, as Raptors took the lead & were looking to stretch that lead Utah ended up with a 24 - 1 ft advantage which Raptors did not see until the 3rd overtime which resulted in a loss.

    ^ The ref for that game was (Foster)

    Here's a write up from an article on Foster.

    "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that NBA ref Scott Foster probably was involved with dirty ref Tim Donaghy on some level. After all, Donaghy made 134 calls to Foster that happened just before, and after, games that Donaghy allegedly bet on. And even worse, Donaghy made more phone calls to Foster over a six-month time period than he did to his own bookie (134 to 126)".

    "During the 2006-07 period under investigation, seven games refereed by Scott Foster had lopsided enough betting on one team to move the point spread by at least 2 points; those seven teams were undefeated against Vegas meaning that the big-money gamblers won a 7 of 7 times on Foster's games; the odds of that happening randomly are less than 1%".

    http://www.faniq.com/blog/NBA-Ref-Sc...mes-Blog-10294
    I think there would be less speculation if the referees were allowed to talk to the media. Regardless, I'm not going to bother if all we're going to do is speculate and come up with elaborate conspiracy theories.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    18,450
    vCash
    1500
    "Betting on the NBA is quite a bit different than betting on college basketball. In the NBA, there is a lot more data to work with because of all the information that is available about the referees. Since you can go to your computer and find the referee crew for each game before it begins, this data is extremely valuable to knowing what might be the best bet based on their tendencies. Today, I want to take a look at referees who tend to call a large amount of fouls versus those who call very few. What effect does it have on the game? How can you profit from this information?"


    Scott Foster- Foster has called 44.3 fouls per game this season. He whistled 44.0 fouls per game last season. This year the points per game are at 201.3 and last year it was 201.7. The ‘over’ is 24-24 this season and was 48-30 last season in his games. In the last two years combined, the away team is 69-55 against the spread.

    Utah - away team

    Leon Wood- Wood has whistled 44.3 fouls per game this season. He called 43.9 fouls per game last season. The points per game are at an astounding 206.9 this year, and they were 204.3 last year. The ‘over’ is 32-15 this year, and it was 35-32 last year. The away team is 62-48 ATS in the last two seasons combined.

    Eric Lewis- Lewis has had 43.5 fouls per game this year and also had 43.1 last year. The points per game are at 199.2 this year, and they were 200.6 last season. The ‘under’ is 29-23 this year in his games, but the ‘over’ was 34-25 last year. The away team is 65-48 ATS in the last two seasons.
    Joe Crawford- Crawford is at 42.3 fouls called per game this season. He called 44.2 fouls per game last year. The points per game are at 201.0 this year, and they were 203.1 last year. The ‘under’ is 24-19 in his games this season, but last year the ‘over’ was a very strong 45-25. The away team has a slight edge at 56-54 ATS.

    Sean Corbin- Corbin has called 44.4 fouls per game this season. He whistled 41.9 per game last year. The points per game are at 203.6 this year, and they were 201.0 last season. The ‘over’ is 25-19 this year so far, and it was 38-30 last year as well. The away team is 59-52 ATS over the last couple seasons.

    http://www.docsports.com/2010/handic...erees-471.html

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,467
    vCash
    1500
    Wonder how many fans of different teams are actually happy with the officiating?

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •