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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Schmooze View Post
    To me the most obvious solution is the two-state solution. Palestine wants it, 130 countries want it...yet Israel and the United States do not want it.
    not fully true... Iran/Hesobola/Hamas etc... Want it all.. Which is why Israel, wants to hit Iran, because everoyne knows that once they get those bombs built, they will aim it at Israel, to anilate them off the map

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandsalami View Post
    not fully true... Iran/Hesobola/Hamas etc... Want it all.. Which is why Israel, wants to hit Iran, because everoyne knows that once they get those bombs built, they will aim it at Israel, to anilate them off the map
    #1 To-date there is zero evidence Iran is even trying to develop a nuclear weapon.

    #2 Iran never once they wanted "wipe (or annihilate) Israel off the map".

    #3 Israel has over 300 nukes, top military technology, and the aid of THE greatest fighting force in the world.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    How many times you think?

    You really want to go down the road of who holds it in higher regard?

    Jerusalem has been the holiest city in Jewish tradition since, according to the Hebrew Bible, King David of Israel first established it as the capital of the united Kingdom of Israel in c. 1000 BCE, and his son, King Solomon, commissioned the building of the First Temple in the city.[10] In Christian tradition, Jerusalem has been a holy city since, according to the New Testament, Jesus was crucified there, possibly in c. 33 CE,[11][12][13] and 300 years later Saint Helena identified the pilgrimage sites of Jesus' life. In Sunni Islam, Jerusalem is the third-holiest city.[14][15] In Islamic tradition in 610 CE it became the first Qibla, the focal point for Muslim prayer (Salah),[16] and Muhammad made his Night Journey there ten years later, according to the Quran.[17][18] As a result, despite having an area of only 0.9 square kilometres (0.35 sq mi),[19] the Old City is home to many sites of tremendous religious importance, among them the Temple Mount and its the Western Wall, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque.
    I didn't say Jews don't hold in high regard. Thats your problem, you have an all or none mentality.

    Your exact words were "Do you really think Jerusalem has some significant importance to the arabs? The only time it did is when Hebrews were run out and their temples demolished to build Mosques and the like.

    Jerusalem is sacred to the jewish people, the Arabs use it as a dumping ground when they controlled the region."

    Thats absolutely false. You can't claim that it holds no significant importance to Arabs and then start arguing about who cares more.

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  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Schmooze View Post
    #1 To-date there is zero evidence Iran is even trying to develop a nuclear weapon.

    #2 Iran never once they wanted "wipe (or annihilate) Israel off the map".

    #3 Israel has over 300 nukes, top military technology, and the aid of THE greatest fighting force in the world.
    No nukes for anyone in that region would be a good start in my opinion and yes I do mean Israel as well.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    No nukes for anyone in that region would be a good start in my opinion and yes I do mean Israel as well.
    It has to start with Israel, as they refuse to sign the NPT or allow UN inspectors in.

    Iran has signed the NPT, have had their uranium enrichment closely monitored, and allow IAEA inspectors at their nuclear facilities. They have also called for a nuclear-weapons free zone in the Middle East as well.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Schmooze View Post
    To me the most obvious solution is the two-state solution. Palestine wants it, 130 countries want it...yet Israel and the United States do not want it.
    Gaza is ruled by Hamas who in their charter call for the destruction of Israel. Does that sound like they back the two state option?

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by {Ron!n} View Post
    I didn't say Jews don't hold in high regard. Thats your problem, you have an all or none mentality.

    Your exact words were "Do you really think Jerusalem has some significant importance to the arabs? The only time it did is when Hebrews were run out and their temples demolished to build Mosques and the like.

    Jerusalem is sacred to the jewish people, the Arabs use it as a dumping ground when they controlled the region."

    Thats absolutely false. You can't claim that it holds no significant importance to Arabs and then start arguing about who cares more.
    No I don't, history shows Hebrew temples and places of worship were there first. Before any Muslim holy places were established. If you have a problem with that I don't know what to tell you.

    It is pretty clear it is third in importance to muslims and first in importance to jews. Nothing you can say will change that.

    Still waiting for you to google how many times Jerusalem is mentioned in the Koran........I did and it came up zero.

    One comparison makes this point most clearly: Jerusalem appears in the Jewish Bible 669 times and Zion (which usually means Jerusalem, sometimes the Land of Israel) 154 times, or 823 times in all. The Christian Bible mentions Jerusalem 154 times and Zion 7 times. In contrast, the columnist Moshe Kohn notes, Jerusalem and Zion appear as frequently in the Qur'an "as they do in the Hindu Bhagavad-Gita, the Taoist Tao-Te Ching, the Buddhist Dhamapada and the Zoroastrian Zend Avesta"—which is to say, not once.

    http://www.danielpipes.org/84/the-mu...m-to-jerusalem


    The Jewish connection to Jerusalem is an ancient and powerful one. Judaism made Jerusalem a holy city over three thousand years ago and through all that time Jews remained steadfast to it. Jews pray in its direction, mention its name constantly in prayers, close the Passover service with the wistful statement "Next year in Jerusalem," and recall the city in the blessing at the end of each meal. The destruction of the Temple looms very large in Jewish consciousness; remembrance takes such forms as a special day of mourning, houses left partially unfinished, a woman's makeup or jewelry left incomplete, and a glass smashed during the wedding ceremony. In addition, Jerusalem has had a prominent historical role, is the only capital of a Jewish state, and is the only city with a Jewish majority during the whole of the past century. In the words of its current mayor, Jerusalem represents "the purist expression of all that Jews prayed for, dreamed of, cried for, and died for in the two thousand years since the destruction of the Second Temple."
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  8. #218
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    Here are some israeli soldiers speaking about what they do, and how the facts are twisted in the media

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37MFa7ZKQWo

    This should help give some insight to the frustration of the palestinians

  9. #219
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    wow, I'm just catching this argument in the middle, but who cares who that land is holier to?

    The issue is the zionist political agenda and oppression by the state of israel. If the land was controlled by jews, but the gov't was normal and didn't kick out and treat non jews like second class citizens, I don't think the issue would be as it is today. The main issue is the political and racist ideology of the ruling class in israel. If there was a regime change in that country, and the new government did not oppress people and take away there human rights and their homes and livelihoods, I am sure the situation would be much much better. I honestly think the religious reasoning is all secondary to this, as jews and muslims and christians have all been living there for quite some time now.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    No I don't, history shows Hebrew temples and places of worship were there first. Before any Muslim holy places were established. If you have a problem with that I don't know what to tell you.

    It is pretty clear it is third in importance to muslims and first in importance to jews. Nothing you can say will change that.

    Still waiting for you to google how many times Jerusalem is mentioned in the Koran........I did and it came up zero.

    One comparison makes this point most clearly: Jerusalem appears in the Jewish Bible 669 times and Zion (which usually means Jerusalem, sometimes the Land of Israel) 154 times, or 823 times in all. The Christian Bible mentions Jerusalem 154 times and Zion 7 times. In contrast, the columnist Moshe Kohn notes, Jerusalem and Zion appear as frequently in the Qur'an "as they do in the Hindu Bhagavad-Gita, the Taoist Tao-Te Ching, the Buddhist Dhamapada and the Zoroastrian Zend Avesta"—which is to say, not once.

    http://www.danielpipes.org/84/the-mu...m-to-jerusalem


    The Jewish connection to Jerusalem is an ancient and powerful one. Judaism made Jerusalem a holy city over three thousand years ago and through all that time Jews remained steadfast to it. Jews pray in its direction, mention its name constantly in prayers, close the Passover service with the wistful statement "Next year in Jerusalem," and recall the city in the blessing at the end of each meal. The destruction of the Temple looms very large in Jewish consciousness; remembrance takes such forms as a special day of mourning, houses left partially unfinished, a woman's makeup or jewelry left incomplete, and a glass smashed during the wedding ceremony. In addition, Jerusalem has had a prominent historical role, is the only capital of a Jewish state, and is the only city with a Jewish majority during the whole of the past century. In the words of its current mayor, Jerusalem represents "the purist expression of all that Jews prayed for, dreamed of, cried for, and died for in the two thousand years since the destruction of the Second Temple."
    What happened to "flying spaghetti monster"? Not to mention 3rd holiest does not equal to no significant importance,

    And I was mistaken, it's not Jerusalem but the Aqsa Mosque that's in the Quran.

    Even then, having a place holy doesn't give you a right to it.

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  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandsalami View Post
    not fully true... Iran/Hesobola/Hamas etc... Want it all.. Which is why Israel, wants to hit Iran, because everoyne knows that once they get those bombs built, they will aim it at Israel, to anilate them off the map
    This is so ridiculous. Why on earth would Iran possibly threaten their own existence by setting off nukes? This is just absolutely nonsensical and illogical. Iran is a legitimately functioning country that has a lot to lose, they're not just going to throw it all down the toilet in one swift move. C'mon man, you gotta be able to think on your own.

    The president of Iran saying that Israel should vanish from the pages of time is not a threat against the people of Israel, it is him saying that he does not accept the current Israeli gov't as is. And why should he? They are racist oppressors of humanity. The Israeli people themselves shouldn't accept their racist gov't as is. And plenty of them don't, plenty of them have protests against their own gov'ts actions as they can see the lack of humanity in their policies.

  12. #222
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    i need to learn to be more articulate and learn to keep my passion in check when i talk about these things. {Ron!n}, nastynice, and JLynn has done a great job of representing the Palestinians' point-of-view.

    one of the biggest reason why i lean so far towards the side of the Palestinians is because how bias people are towards them. They're doing what all occupied people throughout history has done yet...for some reason...so many people view them as "evil" or "terrorists" or "murders," while at the same time, people ignore all the wrongs Israel have committed and consider Israel to be "good" and "righteous." i guess i feel the need to lean so far to the side is the Palestinians to even out all the people that lean so far to the side is Israel in the US.


    "Hard" Kobe getting shook by a role player

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOBolous View Post
    i need to learn to be more articulate and learn to keep my passion in check when i talk about these things. {Ron!n}, nastynice, and JLynn has done a great job of representing the Palestinians' point-of-view.

    one of the biggest reason why i lean so far towards the side of the Palestinians is because how bias people are towards them. They're doing what all occupied people throughout history has done yet...for some reason...so many people view them as "evil" or "terrorists" or "murders," while at the same time, people ignore all the wrongs Israel have committed and consider Israel to be "good" and "righteous." i guess i feel the need to lean so far to the side is the Palestinians to even out all the people that lean so far to the side is Israel in the US.
    i think there is a staunch disparity between the palestinian people and the palestinian terrorist groups that perpetuate much of the animosity and violence that pervades the region. the palestinian people (civilians) get the shaft because of the actions of these groups who claim to represent their best interests. i genuinely feel for the plight of the palestinian civilian and hope for a day when the two sides can live together in some form of peace. the other faction - the palestinian terrorist groups - well, they can go **** themselves.
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  14. #224
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    The pictures running around are so sad

    Props.LgnD.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroadwayJoe View Post
    i think there is a staunch disparity between the palestinian people and the palestinian terrorist groups that perpetuate much of the animosity and violence that pervades the region. the palestinian people (civilians) get the shaft because of the actions of these groups who claim to represent their best interests. i genuinely feel for the plight of the palestinian civilian and hope for a day when the two sides can live together in some form of peace. the other faction - the palestinian terrorist groups - well, they can go **** themselves.
    that's the thing...they don't view themselves as terrorists.


    "Hard" Kobe getting shook by a role player

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