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  1. #91
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    Stats are obviously important, but not all of them are created equal and are often in fact skewed or downright inaccurate when digging through the game tape. The stats are helpful tools to augment the analysis of what is happening in front of your eyes. But it only tells part of the story.

    Any stat that is telling you that ET is anything other than our best wing defender is obviously not telling a fully accurate story. I realize he is not defensively Iguodala at the SF position. But he's a real nice defensive tool....obviously better than our other high minute wings. Every night he's defending the opposition's best wing....regardless if they are SF or SG. That combined with the small sample size will skew things. Also depending on the defensive stat...or the site it comes from....the stat might be based purely on listed starting position as opposed to what actually happens in the game....which can be very inaccurate.
    Last edited by wannabGM; 11-16-2012 at 11:21 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by RickyPrior View Post
    When you go out of the way just to hate...no one takes you seriously.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabGM View Post
    Stats are obviously important, but not all of them are created equal and are often in fact skewed or downright inaccurate when digging through the game tape. The stats are helpful tools to augment the analysis of what is happening in front of your eyes. But it only tells part of the story.

    Any stat that is telling you that ET is anything other than our best wing defender is obviously not telling a fully accurate story. I realize he is not defensively Iguodala at the SF position. But he's a real nice defensive tool....obviously better than our other high minute wings.
    A shame there are no stats to support the OTHER side of the aisle. So dismiss them if you will...but eventually you'll need to show everyone why you believe Turner is anything better than these suggest.

    I do watch. Closely. And there are tons of NEGATIVE things the stats also don't show: team defense, off-the-ball inactivity, etc etc etc

  3. #93
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    Ricky, unlike you I realize that team defense if far far far more valuable of a factor when describing bigs. At guard, and even usually at SF, a players value in terms of his defensive 1 on 1 abilities is usually far more important than team defense. And on this site, I feel strongly that ET's weak team defensive abilities are overblown.....especially when compared to the rest of the players on our roster, many with defensive holes in their games far more significant.

    This might have something to do with why you overrated Meeks defensively so much while he was here. This, and the fact that ET is your personal whipping boy.
    Quote Originally Posted by RickyPrior View Post
    When you go out of the way just to hate...no one takes you seriously.

  4. #94
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    There is no such thing as 'overrating' defense; help or otherwise. And everyone, not just Bigs, have a responsibility to help (hence the term) when an opposing player becomes more dangerous than the man they themselves are assigned to. Period. No matter the position.

    Evan does many many many things poorly. He was obviously never exposed to good coaching. Or, if he was, he didn't pay attention.

    Why you support his inferior skill set and champion him despite the abhorrent stats I cited is beyond curious. This is Year 3. Dear lord. Is THIS all we get from him?

  5. #95
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    What you fail to realize, is that if most of the guys on the roster can defend their own men on the perimeter, and if the Bigs can effectively defend screens, there suddenly is less of a need for defensive rotations, because the opposition gets less ball movement and poorer shot attempts.

    For example, the SF's for the Bucks didn't shoot amazingly efficiently from the floor due to poor defensive rotations from ET. They shot amazingly well from the floor becaue the likes of JRich was defending them. Conversely, Monta Ellis, who was defended by the much larger ET, had only 1 FTA the entire game and one made long range attempt. If it weren't for transition buckets and ET playing only 25 minutes, he would have likely shot worse than his 8-20 from the floor.

    ET got smoked a bit by JR Smith. That cannot be denied. Other than that, he's been an overall defensive plus....even with whatever deficiencies he might have on rotations.

    If ET moves to SG, and JRich/NYoung start playing the smaller roles that the basketball Gods intended for them, then we suddenly improve at 2 positions defensively....dramatically.
    Last edited by wannabGM; 11-16-2012 at 12:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by RickyPrior View Post
    When you go out of the way just to hate...no one takes you seriously.

  6. #96
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    Ricky didnt u freak out yesterday over sample size for our poor record with JRICh as a starter? now u wanna bring up a bad 3 games swing for ET and point fingers like he is the only one who played poor.

    RETURN OF THE MAC

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2-ONE-5 View Post
    Ricky didnt u freak out yesterday over sample size for our poor record with JRICh as a starter? now u wanna bring up a bad 3 games swing for ET and point fingers like he is the only one who played poor.


    170 games.

    I get it already.

  8. #98
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    lol. last year does not matter.

    RETURN OF THE MAC

  9. #99
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    Ya know I'm as big of a sixer fan as anyone but I just don't see what is so great about Turner. He can't shoot, he doesn't get the foul call, he seems like a headcase. I'm just so sick of everyone saying he must start. He is not that good. Look how Richardson, and Wright have played together. Start them two at the 2-3 and let Turner come off the bench.


    PHILLIES 2008 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2-ONE-5 View Post
    Ricky didnt u freak out yesterday over sample size for our poor record with JRICh as a starter? now u wanna bring up a bad 3 games swing for ET and point fingers like he is the only one who played poor.
    I see a few game swings where Turner has a COMPLETE good game, and then most of the year he just isn't that good. I get the picture already, and I dont like it at all.


    PHILLIES 2008 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS
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  11. #101
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    no more turner at the 3

    Yeah, but hes still better than jrich and young. Those guys suck more....


    gotta pay the troll toll

  12. #102
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    I don't think Turner shooting 28% has much to do with where he's playing at all. He's still getting more or less the same shots he's ever gotten, it's just he isn't dropping them (particularly the close ones - from mid-range he's shooting the same percentages as ever, although the last few games he's been bad everywhere). His midrange shots are coming less from him dribbling in from outside and more from him coming off those curls he's been running, but he's not shooting any worse on them.
    Worth noting also that because he's drawing many more fouls his shooting slump relative to his career norm may be even worse than the numbers suggest - because when you're getting fouled they count the makes but not the misses, and we all know some of the misses he gets when he's fouled are not nearly as close as they should've been.

    His season shooting percentage (currently .363) will get back to normal, but that's not because of position - it's because the entire season slump is 5 or 6 extra misses than usual over an 80 shot sample, which is just nothing - this season guys shooting worse than ET include Lou, Klay Thompson, Bargnani, Ginobili, Dorell, Nash, Gallo, Beal. Even Elton is shooting .368. Just about nobody would argue any of those guys are worse shooters than ET, it's just that over small sample sizes even the best shooters can shoot bad, let alone the ET's of the world.
    Making an argument based on 3-game stats is even worse. "And 28% is...well...28%" is undoubtedly true, but it's also 6-21. It's nothing. It's no more meaningful than that 16-34 (.470) he shot in the two games before that. Using three-game data as an argument for/against a player is barely better than using one-game data. It's a joke.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2-ONE-5 View Post
    lol. last year does not matter.
    Sure it does. Why wouldn't it?

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by BChydro86:24350526
    Yeah, but hes still better than jrich and young. Those guys suck more....
    No he's not. He's one of the worst players in the league

  15. #105
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    I'm pretty much over the whole "Evan Turner is a franchise player" kick...

    He's just average at best. Good rebounder for his position, but at the expense of a competent off-the-ball player/shooter. Terrible, terrible shooter. Meager defender.

    I thought since he improved every year in college that we'd see steady development when we drafted him. When he disappointed in year one, I wasn't ready to write him off. I concur that Collins may not have used/developed him properly, but I don't think he's developed a shot that makes him capable of being a game-changer or makes him worthy of getting opportunity after opportunity from a coaching standpoint.

    He is what he is. Without a shot, he's just a one trick pony who grabs rebounds. SG / SF are two very versatile positions and it's a shame to waste those on a guy who is a one-dimensional rebounder.

    And I say this solemnly with sincere disappointment.

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