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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    Yup. If this was fantasy basketball his list would be good. IMO if someone didn't end up winning a ring that year (or at least going real deep into the playoffs), than they have no business being considered in the top ten of best individual seasons. Stat padding on non-contenders is not that impressive to me. Era and level of competition should be taken into account as well.
    My fantasy league would implement several VOP elements so that isn't technically true. I get what your saying but Im not stressing the intangibles as much as I am the tangible aspects. His selections seem to be based on well rounded averages (ie 32-8-8> 35-6-6) regardless of efficiency or league averages.

    "It’s absolutely ludicrous” (to judge players based on whether they’ve won a title.)

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JordansBulls View Post
    Real.Gm
    For me it is something like this.

    1. 1991 Jordan
    2. 1971 Kareem
    3. 1994 Olajuwon
    4. 2000 Shaq
    5. 1967 Wilt
    6. 1965 Russell
    7. 1987 Magic
    8. 1986 Bird
    9. 2003 Duncan
    10. 2012 Lebron
    You go out of your way to discredit LeBron. In no way, shape or form, is he that low.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    You go out of your way to discredit LeBron. In no way, shape or form, is he that low.
    Its not that bad and its his opinion

    "It’s absolutely ludicrous” (to judge players based on whether they’ve won a title.)

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PleaseBeNice View Post
    JasonJohnHorn's 2012 season. So many threads, it's historical

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    My fantasy league would implement several VOP elements so that isn't technically true. I get what your saying but Im not stressing the intangibles as much as I am the tangible aspects. His selections seem to be based on well rounded averages (ie 32-8-8> 35-6-6) regardless of efficiency or league averages.
    Ya, if your looking at raw numbers and nothing else, his list would be good. Perhaps fantasy basketball was a bit of an overstatement. Efficiency and level of competitions must be factored in as well. Usually people who lead teams to championships don't average numbers like 32-8-8 or 35-6-6 because their teams are well rounded. Exception of Jordan. IMO if a player had a 28, 6, 7 season on a great team and won a ring or went to the finals and lost in a close 7 game series, I would give them the nod over a guy who went 35-8-8 on a mediocre to above average team and lost in the first or second round. Guess there needs to be a formula that measures how good one's team is and how good the level of competition is. Then factor in how far they can lead their team with those things taken into account while putting up the best numbers possible.
    Last edited by amos1er; 11-15-2012 at 07:30 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    Here' my list, feel free to tear it apart.
    With pleasure, I wont even give my list just inform you on why you made the wrong choice given those players

    1. Wilt Chamberlain 61/62
    A fine choice but his 67 season is widely seen as his greatest individually. If you think Im only saying that because of his championship then you would be ignoring the best combination of usage/efficiency of his career when you consider the results of that output led to one of the best offenses of all time (statistically). If not that year then consider the 64 season, he played alot better in the post season and his advanced metrics were better across the board.


    2. Oscar Robertson 61/62
    Overrated, statistically David Robinson has had superior seasons but hes not even on this list. Still since you list him, the correct decision is 63-64. 31-11-10 on superior efficiency than the season you listed. To further enhance the decision he did this on the only 55 win team he would ever lead in his prime(winning MVP in the process).


    3. Magic Johnson: 81/82
    Im sensing a trend, it seems you feel players have their best seasons while in their youth. When they have the legs to rack up rebounds and play alot of MPG, sometimes on middling teams thus enhancing their responsibility. But Magic is so clearly better in 87. MVP, Finals MVP, and he posted the best advanced metrics of his career for a championship team. As an individual thats hard to top, I would imagine theres no better feeling than winning while at the top of your game, something Jerry West wishes he knew of.

    4. Jordan: 88/89
    Its hard to go wrong with any MJ season but Ima have to disagree here. First some context, MJ was gunning for triple doubles this year. Collins put him at the point to end the season and he would check with scorekeepers to make sure they had his assists. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with being stat conscious, I know Bird was as well, Im just saying there should be a clear difference between the mentality of a Pre-Phil MJ. And when you combine that killer mentality with superior production + a title, I dont see how you can go against 1991. Greatest PER/WS for both Regular Season and Playoffs of his career while winning his first chip.


    5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 70/71
    Ima go with 77, he wasn't posting the same regular season stats he did in his youth, nor was he on route to winning a title but he was so clearly improved as a go-to player. He wasn't as reliant on his PG's, he wasn't quite as scrawny so he could fight for position better on both ends, also the reason for the decline in his statistical superiority over his league was partly due to the league getting extremely deep with the ABA merger.

    All that aside, this year marks KAJ greatest Playoff production level. Career highs all across the board, he and Bill Walton had an epic duel. He was a championship caliber player without a cast to prove it, as if winning a title your 2nd year wouldn't be proof enough. Cant argue against your pick tho, plenty of people would agree. He was just more reliant on the skyhook than I would like from what Ive seen/read.


    6. John Stockton 89/90
    Its in the right range, I just dont know what makes any Stockton year stick out more than the other. Knowing how amazingly consistent he was year to year I would think playoff production+success would be a determining factor but you chose the year he gets knocked out in R1?

    Why not go with 88? He had that great 7 round series vs LA, destroying the Magic and the Lakers.


    7. Larry Bird 86/87
    Cant complain, arguably his greatest regular season and he (And the rest of Bostons starters) pulled a heavy load just to make the Finals. His play suffered as a result tho. I have trouble assessing Bird's career, Ive just never been overly impressed by any of his runs. If I had to choose it would be the year before this one.


    8. Bill Russell 61/62
    Hard to pin down the peak season from a guy who made his presence felt defensively. That seems to be a choice as good as any, but Im going to ignore individual stats on this one because I find the differences to be minute when discussing his prime years but mostly because I think hes a player whos defensive peak is more relevant. I believe his defensive prime to have come around the season you mentioned up to 1966. Narrowing down his peak, I would guess 1964 simply because it was "easily" his best defensive team according to Russell and the numbers back him. His offense was meek but the Celtics as a team dominated the 2 best runner ups in the league on the strength of their defense. Wilt and that years MVP (Oscar Robertson) really struggled vs Boston.



    9. Moses Malone: 82/83
    Easy call tho the year prior to that was no slouch.


    10. Dennis Roman 91/92
    Agreed, Rodman would go on to post higher rebounding rates but he was very selfish in getting them sometimes. This year might not be much different but he wasnt quite yet a diva so his defense was still dominant.
    Last edited by Chronz; 11-15-2012 at 07:31 AM.

    "It’s absolutely ludicrous” (to judge players based on whether they’ve won a title.)

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    You overrate the oldies. I love me some of those Wilt years but I think the consensus is his best year as an individual was his first Championship seasons. Stats aren't just about pure accumulation but also quality of context. Ill tear up your list later tho
    There isn't a person I would want to tear up my list more than you ;-)
    Why did the chicken cross the basketball court?
    Because he heard the refs were blowing fowls.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post

    Overrated, statistically David Robinson has had superior seasons but hes not even on this list. Still since you list him, the correct decision is 63-64. 31-11-10 on superior efficiency than the season you listed. To further enhance the decision he did this on the only 55 win team he would ever lead in his prime(winning MVP in the process).
    David Robinson is one of the greatest of all time. I honestly believe he was better in his prime than Jordan. I feel the same way about Hakeem, and I felt bad leaving both of these guys off the list, but I didn't want to have too many centers on the list because I generally have a hard-on for great centers and tend to over-represent them. The other name I felt bad leaving off the list was LBJ.

    I don't feel so bad for leaving Pippen and Grant Hill of the list, but they both had great seasons, Pippen in 93/94 and 94/95 (the latter of which he was leading his team in scoring, assists, rebounds, steals and blocks before Jordan came back) and Hill in 96/97 when he lead his team in points, rebounds assists and steals.

    And you are right, I do tend to go with players in their younger years. Usually they put up better numbers because they are usually drafted by $#!T teams who require more of them so they are in turn expected to do more and later in their careers, when they get traded to a winner, or their team gets some pieces, they can focus on what they do best. I guess I'm a bit of a stat whore though. But that is why I left it open, because I realize some people would put more value on accomplistments (like Jordan in 92 and LBJ in 2012 where both won regular season MVPs, finals MVPs, a ring and a gold medal... those are amazing years, even if they aren't your best statistically).
    Why did the chicken cross the basketball court?
    Because he heard the refs were blowing fowls.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PleaseBeNice View Post
    JasonJohnHorn's 2012 season. So many threads, it's historical
    this...

    Do you have a job JJH? Or any hobbies?

  10. #25
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    '67 Wilt.
    OUTRAGE

    <img src=http://images.cbssports.com/u/photos/test/img9149352.jpg border=0 alt= />

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Its hard to go wrong with any MJ season but Ima have to disagree here. First some context, MJ was gunning for triple doubles this year. Collins put him at the point to end the season and he would check with scorekeepers to make sure they had his assists. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with being stat conscious, I know Bird was as well, Im just saying there should be a clear difference between the mentality of a Pre-Phil MJ. And when you combine that killer mentality with superior production + a title, I dont see how you can go against 1991. Greatest PER/WS for both Regular Season and Playoffs of his career while winning his first chip.

    I like how people say Jordan and Bird were "stat conscious" and wilt was a "stat padder" when it's pretty much the same thing. positive and negative connotations, huh?

  12. #27
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    A lot of people are going to rip me for this but I think that all these ridiculous numbers that the likes of Russell and Wilt put up in the sixties are way out of proportion. Bball was young as a professional sport at that time in the US and these players as talented as they might have been would have never been able to put up the same numbers if they played along side today's athletes.

  13. #28
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    idk whether to include team accomplishments like NBA championship/Gold medal or should i use that as a tie breaker?

    Tim Duncan, Jordan, Bron, Shaq, Big O, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Magic

    all come to mind.
    i would have to re-check their career stats and season stats to be specific.. I expect Jordan to have more than one season on the top 10..


    LETS GO HEAT




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