Are the Wilpons Getting A Pass In This Whole Bad Ownership Debate?

[MetsFanatic19]

They are guys that would be alright owners for a small market team, they are terrible in NY.

This.

[gaughan333]

How many big market teams would possibly let two faces of their franchise (Reyes and now possibly Wright) move on in successive years because of money?

The Mets are in that very predicament if Wright doesn't sign an extension. (and it will only be because the Wilpons won't pony up the cash)

Not paying Reyes was possibly smart

[metswon69]

Not paying Reyes was possibly smart

True but its sad they didn't deal him at the trading deadline in 2011 if they weren't going to re-sign him.

The Mets knew the Marlins were going to make a splash and a push for Reyes specifically.

Of course now, the Marlins deal him after one year lol

[gaughan333]

True but its sad they didn't deal him at the trading deadline in 2011 if they weren't going to re-sign him.

The Mets knew the Marlins were going to make a splash and a push for Reyes specifically.

Of course now, the Marlins deal him after one year lol

So you're complaining that they didn't resign him and that they didn't deal him in the same thread?

[lvlheaded]

The problem isnt that the Wilpon's are bad owners. In the past they have shown a willingness to spend I.E Robby Alomar, Mo Vaughn, Carlos Beltran, Carlos Delgado, Jason Bay, Johan Santana etc.

The problem is the Wilpons are broke. They aren't keeping the payroll low because they all of a sudden dont believe in spending money. They are keeping it low because they have no money to spend.

I read an article a couple months ago that said the Wilpons are in the neighborhood of 2 billion dollars in debt. They have been taking loans out on SNY and on the Mets and using it to pay off their own personal debts which is unacceptable. When Frank McCourt did it, Selig forced him to gtfo. However, since he and Wilpon are friends, he continues to let them have the team and run it into the ground.

Im actually convinced that Selig forced Alderson into the Mets GM job so the Wilpons could use the excuse "spending hasnt been working for us so we are just going to go with the Money Ball approach and rebuild that way." However, I dont think the Wilpons really care about the product that is going on the field. I think they are more concerned with that fact that if they lose the Mets and SNY that they are going to go broke. And I believe because of their friendship, Selig is doing what he can to keep the Wilpons in power, which only further adds to my distaste with him.

[metswon69]

So you're complaining that they didn't resign him and that they didn't deal him in the same thread?

If they had no intentions of re-signing him, yeah they should have dealt Reyes.

Preferably i wanted to see him back, but i certainly didn't want just compensation picks in return for a player of his caliber.

[metswon69]

Under ownership who had proper resources, Reyes would have been re-signed and there certainly wouldn't have been the dragging of their feet to re-sign a Cy Young winner and the face of your franchise (Wright) that there has been this offseason.

[GasMan]

So if they were spending $150 million they would be good owners? Why does spending money equate to competence or caring because it certainly doesn't equate to winning.

[metswon69]

So if they were spending $150 million they would be good owners? Why does spending money equate to competence or caring because it certainly doesn't equate to winning.

No but they should have the capabilities to do so.

I am not advocating writing blank checks, but when you have an ownership incapable of carrying an upper echelon payroll in a time in baseball where other markets keep growing, it's a problem.

The Mets are not a mid market team playing in Seattle or Minnesota, they play in New York, that should afford them to be in the market for more expensive FAs.

The way they are going that won't happen for several years.

[metswon69]

I am not advocating they should have the Yankee's payroll but the Mets payroll was 14th in the majors last year.

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda...salaries/team/

That's behind teams like the Brewers, Twins, and Detroit. (Big markets but not NY size markets)

They should be one of the better revenue generating teams in the league if they had an owner who gave a **** and the only reason why their payroll was 14th in the league this year was mostly due to the committed money they already had on the roster (before the Madoff scandal)

[metswon69]

This is why i say nepotism.

During a taping of an upcoming show on YES, Bud Selig praised Mets owner Fred Wilpon, and the state of the Mets, particularly from a financial perspective. "Yes, I have great affection and respect for the Wilpons, there's no doubt about that," Selig said, according to Newsday.

Bud really must have his blinders on to think they can compete with an ownership that's having problems finding capital and continually borrowing against SNY.

[Coupon]

The problem isnt that the Wilpon's are bad owners. In the past they have shown a willingness to spend I.E Robby Alomar, Mo Vaughn, Carlos Beltran, Carlos Delgado, Jason Bay, Johan Santana etc.

The problem is the Wilpons are broke. They aren't keeping the payroll low because they all of a sudden dont believe in spending money. They are keeping it low because they have no money to spend.

The Wilpons have always been horrible owners. They're arrogant and crooked and always had their hands all over baseball operations. Fred famously dismantled the 1986 team. And they've always been cheap! They spent as little as possible to build a temporary winner when they were launching SNY and wanted to heat up demand for tickets before moving into the new stadium.

Even then they tended to avoid real big ticket guys like A-Rod, Vlad, Mussina. Instead they'd overpay for cheaper, older big names on their way down, and lesser free agents. If Mussina was available they'd get Appier. If Holiday was available they'd get Bay. They'd cut corners where they thought it wouldn't show - like the draft. It was all an effort to deceive the fan into season plans at the overpriced, undersized new stadium. Winning was never the priority.

This is a New York sports franchise in a sport with no salary cap. The Wilpons have been trying for years to con fans into thinking they're somehow running a small market team. They were selling that concept way before Madoff.

They walked away from Madoff $300 million ahead. They got off scot free. Now they're using the whole thing as an excuse not to spend money and stick their massive T.V. earnings in their pocket.

The difference between Wilpon and Loria is Wilpon is destroying a much more valuable property.

[Daaaarryyl]

The Mets payroll could conceivably be in the 15 million dollar range for 2014

But it isn't right now. You can't say "The payroll was 140 mil and this past year it was around 100 mil so Selig should step in."

They're paying a high and now mid range payroll with little ability to compete because of their own doings. They have to live with the mistakes they made with bad contracts, the bad luck of Johan's health and the fact that they pick someone decent in the 1st round every year and then close shop right after while teams grab talent well beyond the 1st round. They made their bed and now they have to lay in it.


Now if in 2014 the payroll is 15 mil then we'll talk. I hate the owners of ALL of the franchises I root for including and especially the Wilpons. But you can't expect Selig to take action because the owners of your favorite baseball team are dummies..

[metswon69]

But it isn't right now. You can't say "The payroll was 140 mil and this past year it was around 100 mil so Selig should step in."

They're paying a high and now mid range payroll with little ability to compete because of their own doings. They have to live with the mistakes they made with bad contracts, the bad luck of Johan's health and the fact that they pick someone decent in the 1st round every year and then close shop right after while teams grab talent well beyond the 1st round. They made their bed and now they have to lay in it.


Now if in 2014 the payroll is 15 mil then we'll talk. I hate the owners of ALL of the franchises I root for including and especially the Wilpons. But you can't expect Selig to take action because the owners of your favorite baseball team are dummies..

I have legitimate concerns they will never be able to pay for larger market FAs again under this ownership.

Maybe they quell our concerns going forward in regards to payroll but that's going to take financial commitment. Something the Wilpons have had a hard doing the last 2 offseasons and this offseason.

Payroll that was already there in Bay, Santana, Ollie, Castillo, etc etc is there regardless of whether they spend money and i don't know indicative that is of whether or not they can spend in the future.

I know this team is in a transitional period and going through an organizational shift in how to build a sustaining successful ballclub (although that is arguable) but i hope when the time comes to spend money again they can do it.

With close to 60 million dollars coming off the books going into the 2014 season, i want to believe the Wilpons will start spending money again but who knows to be honest.

[elizur]

It is very different than the Dodger and Marlin situations. There are plenty of owners with less liquid cash than the Wilpons so there is nothing that can be done.

Frank McCourt blatantly used Dodgers cash for his personal fortune. Loria blatantly fooled an entire city into funding a stadium and buying Marlins gear just to capitalize and fund his personal fortune for a year. Those are gross misrepresentations, not what the Wilpons are doing.