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  1. #1
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    HOF faceoff - Kobe Vs Bird

    When it come to the GOAT list, a lot of people put Bird over Kobe...why?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by itscooljazz View Post
    When it come to the GOAT list, a lot of people put Bird over Kobe...why?
    Career length, value, and rings favors Kobe

    Peak (best 5 years), complete player arguments - favors Bird:

    Bird was a far better rebounder than Kobe (due in large part to position and size)
    Kobe however was a better 1 on 1 defender, but Bird was a better team/glue defender

    But two skills where size isn't an issue:

    passing - Bird was hugely better than Kobe

    shooting - Bird was a much better percentage shooter than Kobe - who is leaning towards being a volume scorer.



    Also Kobe is the 2nd best SG of all time, and will never get to #1

    Bird is the best SF of all time as of today - although that may change, but not yet.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  3. #3
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    As someone who wasn't around then, i don't have a massive sample but I have watched a lot of recorded games and personally i don't think Bird is top 5 and not ahead of Kobe. The only reason Bird is still ahead of LeBron is because of length of career and rings. If it was on talent alone, LeBron would easily be number 1 SF already.

    Bird was a great passer, great pure shooter but for me he was just so slow, unathletic and a liability man defender. Agree that he was a good help defender to a certain degree and much better than Kobe in that respect. Both Bird and Kobe have had extreme luck with players they have played with in their careers.

    Agree with Bagwell on majority of above ^^^

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    peak play I'd take Bird, longevity I'd take Kobe.

  5. #5
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    I think its Kobe he did more with his teams bird had a team full of hall of famers and only got 3 championships in a league were it was only 2 or 3 championship contenders.


    Let's get ready to Shiva!!!!!!!!!!!

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    ewing

    Quote Originally Posted by thenaj17 View Post
    As someone who wasn't around then, i don't have a massive sample but I have watched a lot of recorded games and personally i don't think Bird is top 5 and not ahead of Kobe. The only reason Bird is still ahead of LeBron is because of length of career and rings. If it was on talent alone, LeBron would easily be number 1 SF already.

    Bird was a great passer, great pure shooter but for me he was just so slow, unathletic and a liability man defender. Agree that he was a good help defender to a certain degree and much better than Kobe in that respect. Both Bird and Kobe have had extreme luck with players they have played with in their careers.

    Agree with Bagwell on majority of above ^^^

    How many nonathletic 6'10 forwards in today's league can handle like bird, lead the break like Bird, finish like Bird, and mix it up down low like Bird to the tune of double figure rebounds every night? Oh yeah none. Just b/c i guy was white and not in the dunk contest doesn't mean he wasn't athletic. Before his back robbed him Bird was very athletically gifted
    Last edited by ewing; 11-02-2012 at 10:13 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by The goods View Post
    I think its Kobe he did more with his teams bird had a team full of hall of famers and only got 3 championships in a league were it was only 2 or 3 championship contenders.
    who are the contenders this year? heat, thunder, lakers.

    league disparity still sucks

  8. #8
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    Bird is a better scorer. And better rebounder. A better passer. A better shooter.

    I made a post where I put up their numbers without their names, and EVERYBODY chose Bird, until I said who the players were, then all of a sudden people started voting for Kobe.

    Bird is without question the better player of the two. What else do you want the guy to do better than Kobe? Score. Rebound. Pass. Shoot. Yeah, Bird might not have been as good a one-on-one defender, but Kobe is overrated in that respect and Bird was still a great team defender, you don't retire with as many steals as Bird have without being able to play defence.
    What the eye doesn't see and the mind doesn't know, doesn't exist.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by The goods View Post
    I think its Kobe he did more with his teams bird had a team full of hall of famers and only got 3 championships in a league were it was only 2 or 3 championship contenders.
    Lakers. Philly. Detroit. Chicago. Bird's Celtics played against a lot of great teams.

    Look at what LA played in the finals with Shaq. Indy. Philly. NJ. None of those teams were anywhere near as good as the Moses/Dr. J sixers or the Thomas/Dumars Pistons.

    And the other two... Orlando? They only had one All-Star, and Boston's starting center was injured the year they won.




    To have won 3 rings in the era Bird played is was an amazing accomplishment.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The goods View Post
    I think its Kobe he did more with his teams bird had a team full of hall of famers and only got 3 championships in a league were it was only 2 or 3 championship contenders.
    LOL.

    The '79-'86 76'ers were great. The '83 title team is easily one of the 15 best title teams of all time, and quite possibly the most underrated.

    The '79-'91 Lakers are arguably the 2nd greatest dynasty teams of all time.

    The '86 Celts are routinely listed as one of the two greatest teams ever. It's tough to win like Russell Celts or Jordan Bulls when you have a seriously competative top tier of teams.

    The Pistons came in the late 80's and took their two titles. Then the Bulls when the Celts were really tailing off.

    The poor Bucks of '81-'91 had one or two teams that would have won titles in the 70's.

    Houston got into the Finals twice

    Bird was fully healthy his first 9 years and got into the Finals 5 times and won 3. A team also underwent the single biggest turn around when Bird joined the Celts as a rookie. From 29-53 to 61-21, with a total of over net 12.0 SRS change.

    Bird also has 3 MVP's to 1 for Kobe - and Kobe isn't winning any more.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 11-02-2012 at 10:45 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  11. #11
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    Because Larry Bird can fill it up just as good as Kobe but at a higher % (career 45% vs 50%), can rebound better than Kobe (career 8 rpg vs 5 rpg), and is a more willing passer than Kobe (career 6 asp vs 5 apg).

    if you don't want to compare career stats...let's compare stats from each players' best season"

    29 ppg on 52% shooting/11 rpg/7 apg/2 spg/1 bpg

    vs

    35 ppg on 45% shooting/5 rpg/ 5 apg/2 spg/0 bpg

    the stats are rounded to the closes whole number. the only thing kobe beats larry bird on is points per game. larry bird beats kobe on efficiency, rebounds, assists, and blocks.
    Last edited by FOBolous; 11-02-2012 at 11:06 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post
    1. Thunder
    2. Warriors
    3. Clippers
    4. Blazers
    5. Grizzlies
    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post

    I already have that scrizzguap on the Dubs winning a 'ship.
    Sincerely,
    delusional Warriors fan

    Quote Originally Posted by COOLbeans View Post
    What do you do for a living because I guarantee it's not in academics or psychology?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOBolous View Post
    Because Larry Bird can fill it up just as good as Kobe but at a higher % (career 45% vs 50%), can rebound better than Kobe (career 8 rpg vs 5 rpg), and is a more willing passer than Kobe (career 6 asp vs 5 apg).

    if you don't want to compare career stats...let's compare stats from each players' best season"

    29 ppg on 52% shooting/11 rpg/7 apg/2 spg/1 bpg

    vs

    35 ppg on 45% shooting/5 rpg/ 4 apg/2 spg/0 bpg

    the stats are rounded to the closes whole number. the only thing kobe beats larry bird on is points per game. larry bird beats kobe on efficiency, rebounds, assists, and blocks.
    why did you round up 10.5 to 11 while 4.5 to 4?

  13. #13
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    How about playoff numbers?

    Bird: 23.8/10.3/6.5 (on 18.8 FGA) WS/48: .173

    Kobe: 25.6/4.7/4.3 (on 20.5 FGA) WS/48: .157

    In fact in rate stats such as: ORtg, DRtg, WS/48 - Bird takes it. Counting stats - KObe has about 270 more games played, so you have divide by games if you want to look at those.

    Bird has some of the greatest playoff moments in league history. Trash talking, last second shots, killer passes, you name it.

    There are hundreds of video's try this one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeedmxI09tU

    This one is a bit more biased, but still classic:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svHk8...eature=related
    Last edited by bagwell368; 11-02-2012 at 11:09 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dh144498 View Post
    why did you round up 10.5 to 11 while 4.5 to 4?
    fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post
    1. Thunder
    2. Warriors
    3. Clippers
    4. Blazers
    5. Grizzlies
    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post

    I already have that scrizzguap on the Dubs winning a 'ship.
    Sincerely,
    delusional Warriors fan

    Quote Originally Posted by COOLbeans View Post
    What do you do for a living because I guarantee it's not in academics or psychology?

  15. #15
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    It is always the same thing with Kobe. I feel like Kobe fans take it as a slight to say that he has been very good for an incredibly long time, IMO he has never been the best. To be a top 5 player in the NBA for 10-15 years is unbelievable but his peak years dont measure up to the best of all time.

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