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  1. #16
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    There is alot of .255 guys out there like Victorino. He would have been our 5th best hitter in a dysfunctional offensive challenged lineup. Wow what an upgrade. Spend more money on pitching then cause you can't lose if they don't score......

  2. #17
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    he's a huge upgrade at leadoff. way better than Cozart and Stubbs splitting leadoff time. his OBP was .321, and he struck out 80 times. and he's a switch hitter. definitely a huge upgrade from what he have now.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlohm1 View Post
    Morgan is an *** hole. don't you remember when he pushed a Reds fan? there is a very good reason that he'll sign cheap and that is because no one wants him. it's not like we can fix his attitude.
    I realize he has character issues but if you bring him in on 800K if he acts up you DFA him and its over. Don't understand what the risk is here.... o wait there is none! Or you can spend 8 mil more and get a little more production... What is the since in that? Shane is a good ball player but a terrible value. There are many guys who will hit his slash lines making a lot less.

  4. #19
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    Victorino has been one of the better leadoff hitters in the game for years. He has a high OBP, solid AVG, steals plenty of bases, and he has 3 Gold Gloves in CF. I don't understand the argument that he isn't worth the money. The Reds are trying to get better at the leadoff spot by investing money in a what is close to a sure thing without downgrading their defense in CF. Yet I keep reading posts about taking gambles on players that cost less or have personality issues. Can somebody say Corey Patterson all over again? The Reds have some money to spend, obviously they couldn't afford Torii Hunter, so lets get the best guy our budget will allow. Victorino, Pagan, or trade for Span. Anything less than getting one of those 3 players then Reds should just stick with Stubbs.
    Last edited by stsparks72; 11-17-2012 at 01:38 AM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by stsparks72 View Post
    Victorino has been one of the better leadoff hitters in the game for years. He has a high OBP, solid AVG, steals plenty of bases, and he has 3 Gold Gloves in CF. I don't understand the argument that he isn't worth the money. The Reds are trying to get better at the leadoff spot by investing money in a what is close to a sure thing without downgrading their defense in CF. Yet I keep reading posts about taking gambles on players that cost less or have personality issues. Can somebody say Corey Patterson all over again? The Reds have some money to spend, obviously they couldn't afford Torii Hunter, so lets get the best guy our budget will allow. Victorino, Pagan, or trade for Span. Anything less than getting one of those 3 players then Reds should just stick with Stubbs.
    I just think with the money we should invest in a better player than Vicorino. I like the Spann idea, but in a free agent marget Nyjer Morgan is a great value as far as money goes. I think if the Reds sign Nyjer, Madson/Broxton and Ludwick. If they sign Victorino you are looking at Heisey in LF. I don't think you can bring a closer Luddy and Victor all on 13 mil. I think with Hamilton ready to go in September hopefully Morgan (or someone cheap with the same skill set like Morgan) can keep his act together and do a good job leading off. Nyjer want sto land on another team next year. He is playing for the rest of his career and he probably knows this. Therefore will be on his best behaivor. I just think he is worth a gamble in order to resign Luddy and Move Chap in the rotation. You can DFA him if it doesn't work out then your right back wehre you are at with Stubbs! I don't think it is a gamble really. Just my opinion. If we are talking Bourne then hell yeah pay the money but you are getting a decent guy for alot of money. He is not worth it.
    Last edited by ChrisSabo17; 11-17-2012 at 03:38 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisSabo17 View Post
    I realize he has character issues but if you bring him in on 800K if he acts up you DFA him and its over. Don't understand what the risk is here.... o wait there is none! Or you can spend 8 mil more and get a little more production... What is the since in that? Shane is a good ball player but a terrible value. There are many guys who will hit his slash lines making a lot less.
    if the Reds cut him, they'll still have to pay him unless they wave him and another team picks up his contract, so if he acts up early on, then their is a risk because we'll be paying him to sit at home and watch TV. not to mention, you wants guys who the young players can look up to. and do you really want them looking up to him?
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  7. #22
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    Is Nyjer Morgan even a free agent? Looks to me as if he is 1st year arb eligible. Are the Brewers not going to offer him arbitration? Not that I want the Reds to sign him, but if he isn't going to be available then it isn't even worth discussing.

  8. #23
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    I honestly don't know. I haven't cared to look it up because I don't like him.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by stsparks72 View Post
    Is Nyjer Morgan even a free agent? Looks to me as if he is 1st year arb eligible. Are the Brewers not going to offer him arbitration? Not that I want the Reds to sign him, but if he isn't going to be available then it isn't even worth discussing.
    Yes he is. The Brew Crew tried to option him to AAA and he refused electing to be a FA.

    props to Bee for the sig!!

  10. #25
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    Neither would be a bad option both very good leadoff hitters. Personally I haven't given up on Stubbs yet and still think he can improve.

  11. #26
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    I like the idea of Victorinio being a stop gap for two years. I would really like to see Billy in AAA first and then maybe platoon him with Victorino in the second year. There is no need to rush him.

    The Reds rushed Bailey and it took him this long for him to be where he's at now.I understand pitching and hitting are like comparing apples and oranges, but the same developmental approach should be the same with raw, young talent. Just be a little patient.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaAJ View Post
    Personally I haven't given up on Stubbs yet and still think he can improve.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaAJ View Post
    Neither would be a bad option both very good leadoff hitters. Personally I haven't given up on Stubbs yet and still think he can improve.
    Well I suppose he can't get much worse. It's odd how some players have a hard time getting opportunities while others are given countless chances to prove themselves. I think just for the appearance of improvement alone, Stubbs cannot be the opening day starter in CF. He's a nice guy and has a couple valuable tools, but it would be a real kick in the gut to the players on this team if they stick with status quo in CF.

  14. #29
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    He's not even old and he's already gotten worse every year since being called up. he's gotten every oppurtinity in the world to prove him self and he always fails. players like him are a dime a dozen, and most of them are just hoping for 1 chance and he's getting as many as he wants.
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  15. #30
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    I think we are looking at a possible left fielder with Stubbs still here. I don't think Ludwick will be back but I hope I'm Wrong.

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