Cleveland Browns General Discussion Thread II (Offtopic)

[ottograham14]

How much more aggressive in free agency do you guys expect us to be with Haslam in control? Obviously it's a tough thing to estimate now, just curious about how you guys view it.

Well they are going to have to either extend a lot of guys or go sign either a lot of small guys to small contracts or sign a few big names to large contracts because of the new CBA rules and them having to hit whatever floor this year. I expect them to go with maybe 4-5 signings but 1-2 be big name FA's and no not the big names of Frostee Rucker or Usama Young but bigger.

2013 NFL Salary Cap- $120.9M

2013 Team Salary- $83.33M

2012 Cap Space- $33.47M W/ Standard. $43.51M W/ Rollover

-First thing here that is unclear is the rollover. I'm assuming that the rollover will be the available space between the standard Salary Cap and the total Team Salary. that number is $10.04M. In the event this number isn't accurate, I will also record the standard cap space as well, thus the two numbers above. Its also unclear if this rollover accounts for the dead money in addition to the team salary in comparison to the salary cap. In this case, I accounted for it.

- The dead money for 2013 as of right now will be $4.1M (Wallace, Moore, and Steinbach, all of which will fall off after 2013 as well!!)
----The Browns will have virtually no "dead money" in 2014, barring any cuts this year.

- The salary cap may go up more than the reports $300K, but it wouldn't be by much.

How much money do the Browns HAVE to spend next year?

-This number is 89% of the salary cap. Which is $107.6M

-For the Browns, to get to that number, they would have to spend $24.27M base on the standard cap figure. That number is $20.17M taking into account the dead money.

-Also, remember, the Browns do not HAVE to spend this money, but if they don't they will have to pay the league the remaining figure.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...l-32-nfl-teams
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/7/16/...oll-paul-allen
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...ucture-rosters
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/77...ary-cap-growth

[Melo15]

Completely forgot about that. Thank for bringing that up, Otto. That's pretty interesting. Who would be the extension candidates? Off the top of my head I'd guess Rubin, Mack and Haden. Not sure when their current contracts are up though since I'm on my phone.

[Stonevision]

Upcoming free agents for the Cleveland Browns (2012 salaries):

Sheldon Brown - 3.7 mil
Josh Cribbs - 1.438 mil
Phil Dawson - 3.81 mil
Auston English - 465,000
Scott Fujita - 3.65 mil
Reggie Hodges - 700,000
Brandon Jackson - 1.65 mil
Kaluka Maiava - 565,000
Mohommed Massaquoi - 615,000
Jordan Norwood - 540,000
Chris Ogbonnaya - 540,000
Juqua Parker - 1.4 mil
Alex Smith - 850,000
Ray Ventrone - 700,000
Ben Watson - 2.88 mil
Eddie Williams - 540,000
Christian Yount - 465,000

Not one of these players are blue chip players the Browns need to keep going forward however I'd like to see them retain at least a couple of the names on this list. Cribbs, Dawson, Parker and Smith I would keep around for at least one more season. And a couple of the contracts off the books like Brown, Fujita and Jackson.

[letsgobrownies7]

Sheldon Brown - 3.7 mil Let go
Josh Cribbs - 1.438 mil Let go
Phil Dawson - 3.81 mil Keep
Auston English - 465,000 Let go
Scott Fujita - 3.65 mil Let go
Reggie Hodges - 700,000 Let go
Brandon Jackson - 1.65 mil Let go
Kaluka Maiava - 565,000 Keep for depth
Mohommed Massaquoi - 615,000 Let go
Jordan Norwood - 540,000 Let go
Chris Ogbonnaya - 540,000 On the fence
Juqua Parker - 1.4 mil Keep
Alex Smith - 850,000 Let go
Ray Ventrone - 700,000 Let go
Ben Watson - 2.88 mil Let go
Eddie Williams - 540,000 Let go
Christian Yount - 465,000 Keep

[Stonevision]

I like Alex Smith as a back-up TE. They will have to figure out the FB position over the off-season as Smith is not the answer. I'd love to have Vickers back. I just remember how big a role he played when Harrison went off for 4 straight games a few years back.

[kosar4president]

Upcoming free agents for the Cleveland Browns (2012 salaries):

Sheldon Brown - 3.7 mil
Josh Cribbs - 1.438 mil
Phil Dawson - 3.81 mil
Auston English - 465,000
Scott Fujita - 3.65 mil
Reggie Hodges - 700,000
Brandon Jackson - 1.65 mil
Kaluka Maiava - 565,000
Mohommed Massaquoi - 615,000
Jordan Norwood - 540,000
Chris Ogbonnaya - 540,000
Juqua Parker - 1.4 mil
Alex Smith - 850,000
Ray Ventrone - 700,000
Ben Watson - 2.88 mil
Eddie Williams - 540,000
Christian Yount - 465,000

Not one of these players are blue chip players the Browns need to keep going forward however I'd like to see them retain at least a couple of the names on this list. Cribbs, Dawson, Parker and Smith I would keep around for at least one more season. And a couple of the contracts off the books like Brown, Fujita and Jackson.

Sheldon Brown - 3.7 mil let go
Josh Cribbs - 1.438 mil keep at a reduced salary
Phil Dawson - 3.81 mil MUST KEEP
Auston English - 465,000 let go
Scott Fujita - 3.65 mil let go
Reggie Hodges - 700,000 keep
Brandon Jackson - 1.65 mil let go
Kaluka Maiava - 565,000 keep
Mohommed Massaquoi - 615,000 keep
Jordan Norwood - 540,000 keep
Chris Ogbonnaya - 540,000 keep
Juqua Parker - 1.4 mil let go
Alex Smith - 850,000 keep
Ray Ventrone - 700,000 let go
Ben Watson - 2.88 mil let go
Eddie Williams - 540,000 let go
Christian Yount - 465,000 let go

[Melo15]

I'm honestly ready for Cribbs to hit free agency. Hopefully that will make him realize that he's not valued as a WR and that everyone likely sees him strictly as a returner. If he goes, oh well. He's been great for us over the years but his constant complaining has really started to piss me off.

[ottograham14]

Rubin signed an extension inseason of 2011 going till 2015 Melo. Guys that could be up for an extension are mostly going to be the ones that are FA's in 2014. I can see them doing a couple guys in the 2015 class but think they will wait for more of 2013 in season and 2014 offseason for that:

Alex Mack - FA 2014
TJ Ward - FA 2014
Shawn Lauvao - FA 2014 - Don't want to happen but might. Will probably be up to how Ryan Miller comes along as I have heard they really like him as a Guard in the future and how Pinkston comes back.
John Greco - FA 2014 - Rather extend him than Lauvao

Other FA's for 2014 class right now - O'Neil Cousins, Montario Hardesty, Colt McCoy, and Usama Young. Everyone else who isn't a FA in 2013 offseason is locked up till 2015 and beyond.

Out of this years offseason I can see this or at least I would do this:

Sheldon Brown - 3.7 mil Let go
Josh Cribbs - 1.438 mil - Let Go
Phil Dawson - 3.81 mil MUST KEEP
Auston English - 465,000 Let go
Scott Fujita - 3.65 mil Let go
Reggie Hodges - 700,000 Let go
Brandon Jackson - 1.65 mil Let go
Kaluka Maiava - 565,000 Keep - Depth
Mohommed Massaquoi - 615,000 Let Go
Jordan Norwood - 540,000 Let Go
Chris Ogbonnaya - 540,000 Keep - Depth and ST play
Juqua Parker - 1.4 mil Keep
Alex Smith - 850,000 Keep
Ray Ventrone - 700,000 Keep
Ben Watson - 2.88 mil Let Go as Cameron should get more PT
Eddie Williams - 540,000 Let Go
Christian Yount - 465,000 Keep - Really locked down LS after it was bad last year

Find a starting CB to replace Brown. Either use Benjamin or Skrine as KR or go find a specialty player that can do it. Tired of Cribbs constant second guessing of what he wants to do on offense or ST's. Will always love the guy but Banner doesn't seem to be one to overpay for a guy like this. Need to find an inline TE to replace Watson and allow Cameron to set up in different areas and then also need a new FB as Smith should go back to his blocking TE position. Plus I love the fire Smith shows and intelligence on game days. Find a veteran WR to replace MoMass, someone that has either been in the system that is brought in or just a veteran that is very savvy with his routes to help continue to grow the youngsters. Norwood can be let go because I really don't see him doing anything than what Cooper can do and if they keep Weeden I would rather see Cooper than Norwood next year. Plus he will be cheaper.

And finally find a new punter. Hodges isn't same after injury and Punters are a dime a dozen.

[Melo15]

Thanks for the heads up about Rubin, Otto. Not sure how I forgot about that

[Stonevision]

Gordon's best game by far. He's really starting to find his place in this system and he is only going to get better. Both he and Greg Little are starting to step it up which is great news for this franchise as it has been looking for players to step up on the outside since the meltdown of the former #17.

I keep comparing Gordon to the Rams #33 overall selection Brian Quick. If the Browns finished dead last this season the Gordon pick would be the equivalent of this pick while he would also have a year of experience on next year's draft class. Gordon is blowing him away in production as a rookie.

Gordon's stat line:

34 receptions - 6th among rookies (T-Rich is #2 with 44)
646 receiving yards - 1st among rookies
19.0 avg/catch - 1st among rookies
5 receiving TDs - tied 1st among rookies
53.8 yards/game - 1st among rookies
12 catches of 20+ yards - 1st among rookies
1st down receptions - 2nd among rookies
82.4% first down - 1st among rookies

I'd say the risky gamble Heckert made is paying off for the Browns...

[YSURocket]

Good afternoon all. So it have been awhile since I posted in here but I wanted to see what everyone’s feeling on weeden so far has been. I try to follow the threads on a regular basis, so I apologize if I missed the talk. Definitely not trying to troll but his stats are not better then McCoy’s at this point and I believe he has much better weapons. For those who remember during draft time I have always been a McCoy homer. McCoy thru 13 games had 57.2% completion 14 tds 11 ints 2753 yards. Weeden thru 12 games 57% 13 tds 15 ints 2820 yards. McCoy had 214 yards rushing to Weeden’s 83. Thoughts?

Do not what so ever want to draft another QB and I am rooting for Weeden or McCoy, would just like to see some consistency with the QB position.

[ottograham14]

Good afternoon all. So it have been awhile since I posted in here but I wanted to see what everyone’s feeling on weeden so far has been. I try to follow the threads on a regular basis, so I apologize if I missed the talk. Definitely not trying to troll but his stats are not better then McCoy’s at this point and I believe he has much better weapons. For those who remember during draft time I have always been a McCoy homer. McCoy thru 13 games had 57.2% completion 14 tds 11 ints 2753 yards. Weeden thru 12 games 57% 13 tds 15 ints 2820 yards. McCoy had 214 yards rushing to Weeden’s 83. Thoughts?

Do not what so ever want to draft another QB and I am rooting for Weeden or McCoy, would just like to see some consistency with the QB position.

If you are wanting to see some consistency from QB play then talking about McCoy is not the way to do it especially if you are just looking at the numbers of the two as a lot of McCoy's numbers last year were garbage time numbers such as the Oakland game that he couldn't close last year. Not harping on you but McCoy will never again be the full time starter for the Browns. If you can't see the distinctions between the two on gameday then thats tough as McCoy has a lot of limitations regarding arm strength, pocket presence and seeing the field. I will admit that Weeden has been up and down this year but he clearly has a better feel for the game than McCoy even did in his second year starting not to mention he can make everythrow in the game but just needs to get consistent with it. If you want consistency then the best thing for the team moving forward IMO will be to continue to grow Weeden next year and see if progress is made and if he becomes more accurate and smarter in-game and if not then look at 2014 offseason to replace him as the team will have most guys ready to hit their prime then.

Sometimes even numbers lie.

[browniebuck]

I get what you are saying, Otto...but you aren't comparing apples to apples. I am not saying that I want Colt McCoy (although I do think he got a raw deal) to take over and I am not saying that I want Brandon Weeden replaced...I am saying that you can't compare what Brandon Weeden is doing this year with this surrounding cast to what McCoy did last year with his cast of rejects.

This year's offensive improvements....
RB - Trent Richardson...and a healthy Montario Hardesty
WR - Josh Gordon
RT - Mitchell Schwartz

Last year's offensive offense
RB - no Peyton Hillis, no Montario Hardesty...Chris Ogbannaya got meaningful carries
WR - Greg Little...led the team in catches and the league in drops (or did it just seem like that)
OL - this was a revolving door, to say the least

I get that Colt McCoy doesn't have the strongest arm...but he didn't get anywhere near a fair shake here in Cleveland. Colt was given a cap gun and a plastic shield and was told to go out and win a war...Brandon Weeden has at least been given a little body armor and at least a semi-automatic weapon to try to win that war.

All that being said...Weeden needs to be our starter going forward...I am sick of the waffling, pick a QB and give them 2-4 years all the while improving the cast of characters surrounding them...if the QB sucks, at least the surrounding cast is there for the next QB, whether it be through the draft or free agency (with a decent surrounding cast...you MAY get one to come here!!!)!

[Melo15]

I get why people think Colt got a raw deal but I think anyone that has watched both quarterbacks can agree that Weeden has a much higher ceiling. Hell, he's at his floor right now and we're comparing that with how Colt looked. Weeden gives our offense a much better chance at success and opens up our playbook much more than Colt did. If Colt was starting then I think it's safe to say Gordon would not have had nearly the same impact.

[Melo15]

Watching the Trent Richardson/Kurt Colemen highlight will never get old