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  1. #466
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    The Marlins needed one of the two young catchers back to make this even believable. So this thread isn't real


    The Cult of Gattis

  2. #467
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    Yankees need to fill Rotation and Bullpen out so right know Blue Jays/Baltimore/Rays then Yankees and Red Sox's.

    Zach Cox at 3B,Chris Coghlan at 2B,Justin Ruggiano,Peterson,Mattison,Hernandez in OF,Hand,Sanabia,LeBlanc in SP,Dunn,Cisek and so in Bullpen
    http://miami.marlins.mlb.com/mlb/pro...2012/#list=mia Jose Fernandez and so on

  3. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    How the hell does anyone trade for Jeff Mathis?
    I'm just surprised it wasn't us.

  4. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mile High Champ View Post
    How on earth does the trade make no sense for the Jays? JJ if healthy is one of the leagues 10 best pitchers and is entering the prime years of his career as a 28 year old. Mark Buehrle is a work horse and is a great third starter on any contending team that is gives you quality starts. Add in a great lead off hitter in Reyes which solves a huge problem for the Jays. He is going to be a huge asset for the Jays with him batting in front of EE and Joey Bats.
    IM not saying they aren't better off but I don't see them as an elite team... Im not a reyes fan at all, especially after watching Crawford.

    Plus the money, if this limits what they do in the future it just seems like they capped their potential (unless you want to make things up about unlimited money like the dodgers fans)

    Plus Ricky Romero isn't that good, terrible last year and a 4.29 career FIP. So I don't get everyone saying he is so good

    EE is going to regress, he isn't going to maintain the same HR/FB ratio

    Johnson is moving to the east

    They will be better for sure, but this trade doesn't make them better than the Tigers or the Rangers, and I wouldn't peg them in for the AL east champs either.

    To be fair though there is still the whole offseason basically
    Jackie Bradley Junior.... that is all

  5. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
    The only 2 prospects i'd be worried about are Nicolino and Marisnick. But they gave up quantity over quality in this trade.
    I'd somewhat disagree there. Hech is almost a lock to be a mediocre MLB SS with his defensive skills and if he can develop, literally, any offensive game could be an Elvis Andrus. Nicolino and Marisnick are very good prospects in their own right. Henderson Alverez still has some upside as well. I'd say there's some pretty good quality going both ways in this trade.

    The Jays win in usable talent currently, but it's not a stretch to say that the Marlins may end up with more on their end if everything the Jays gave up hits in the MLB as major league caliber players.

    I'm not saying this is a bad trade for the Jays, but simply stating it's a far riskier endeavor than many are currently making it out to be.
    mikeOLT!

    There's no "I" in "win"

  6. #471
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    Id peg them as the favorite in the east if they go out and get a LF or DH


    The Cult of Gattis

  7. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Its not rape at all.... Jays gave up a ton of prospects and took on a ton of Salary.. I expected this from the Marlins down the line but its not as bad as people are making it out to be considering the question mark that is JJ and the fact that Reyes will or could hit a wall rather soon and will not touch the career year he had as a met.
    I'm not worried about the salary. The FO said that they could support a $150 million payroll and this supports that claim. I can't see them doing this trade without intending to re-sign him.

  8. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATL#22 View Post
    Id peg them as the favorite in the east if they go out and get a LF or DH
    Josh Hamilton would look great in that lineup

  9. #474
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    salary the Jays are taking

    - 4 million, getting from Marlins

    Josh Johnson
    13.75 million. If he is good, then he will probably getting a qualifying offer, that will replace the specs they lose (or they could re-sign him). If he isn't, then they pay him 13.75 to do nothing.

    Jose Reyes
    2013 - 10
    2014 - 16
    2015 - 22
    2016 - 22
    2017 - 22
    2018 - 22/4 buyout

    That really sucks. That's a lot of money to Jose Reyes as he ages. That's 96 million over 5 years, at the very least, and as much as 112 million over the next 6 years (if he is good in 2017).

    Buehrle
    13 - 11
    14 - 18
    15 - 19
    Not too horrible, not great
    3/48. It's a little high for him, but again, not awful.

    John Buck
    6 million in 2013

    Emilio Bonifacio
    Subject to arb, probably around 3 million.


    That's 157 million over 12 controlled seasons (or 175 million over 13 controlled seasons)

    do we think they can get 30+ WAR out of this deal?

    I think it's certainly possible, but they did take on more salary then people are probably thinking about

  10. #475
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    To people saying the Jays gave up a lot its really not the case. Henderson alvarez had a disapointing season. His problem every start was that he had nothing to set up his sinker. He only ever beat bad teams. Honestly not a fan

    Yunel and hech are good players but with Reyes on our team they are both very expendable. Both are most valuable as SS and getting rid of both of them was an option none of us really saw coming.

    Niccolino was one of 3 promising young starters we have. I think when the return is what it is giving him up is worth it in my opinion. I feel like we are gunna keep the other two at this point but getting Josh Johnson today is huge for the Blue Jays in their current situation.

    Marisnick hurts the most I think. Still we have a deep enough farm with guys closer to the majors to worry about now.

    Jeff mathis and Anthony desclafani lol

  11. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Hech has been graded out as 80 range and 80 arm. Get off this "not as good defensively" thing. Literally, Jays fans, earlier in the day, were all up in arms at someone calling Andrelton Simmonds the best defensive SS prospect. So lets not pretend like this has changed in the tune of 8 hours.

    Secondly, yeah, Escobar was going to get dumped. You also gave up Marisnek and Nicolino, two fantastic prospects. And Henderson Alverez.

    You got back a top 5 SS, a potential ace and a #3 pitcher. You also got backed a highly injury prone ace SP, an overpaid (dearly) #3 SP and a SS with injury concerns and a bad contract. So it's not "statutory rape" (that really doesn't even make any damn sense). It's a very risky endeavor. On one hand it could really blossom and be a fantastic move. On the other hand, it could really, and easily, blow up in your face. And quite badly. There's considerable talent going both ways.
    say whatever u want about your "grades" i had to watch this dude play last year for many games last year and it was painful... he swings like a girl... if he was lucky enough to make contact it was a ground ball.... seriously. defensively ill give u that he has potential... so maybe hes the next john mcdonald? ill take that...

    HEnderon like i said is great and escobar was gone anyways...

    As for prospects, the jays have probably top 5 in the league deepest prospects and best prospects.. and as good as those 2 may be, they are not our top prospects..... we didnt have to part with people like Anthony Gose and Travis Darnaud and other prospects so "us jays fans" are unanimously happy with this trade i can assure you.

  12. #477
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    Random thought


    The cards top draft picks in consecutive years

    Cox and Wallace, now have to be good for two horrible teams lol.


    Oh it's fun

  13. #478
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    blue jays fans, i feel really bad for you, your about to get a monster truck of hate dumped on you for taking a lot of money on, look what happened to the dodgers, after the blockbuster with boston they became public enemy #1 around here.

  14. #479
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    Can we get LeBron and Wade too?

  15. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    I'd somewhat disagree there. Hech is almost a lock to be a mediocre MLB SS with his defensive skills and if he can develop, literally, any offensive game could be an Elvis Andrus. Nicolino and Marisnick are very good prospects in their own right. Henderson Alverez still has some upside as well. I'd say there's some pretty good quality going both ways in this trade.

    The Jays win in usable talent currently, but it's not a stretch to say that the Marlins may end up with more on their end if everything the Jays gave up hits in the MLB as major league caliber players.

    I'm not saying this is a bad trade for the Jays, but simply stating it's a far riskier endeavor than many are currently making it out to be.
    I dont disagree with this statement at all. Alvarez has some upside, but hes a two pitch pitcher. He has no outpitch and rely's on groundballs way to much. I really dont see him being anything special. I project him as a back end starter or a great relief pitcher. Hechavarria is awesome defensively and will stick in the majors just on defense alone. I see the comparison with Andrus, but i dont see it happening. Andrus was better offensively in the minors at a much younger age. Hechavarria is only 1 year younger than Elvis... Just to put that out there

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