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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labgrownmangoat View Post
    Sure. We must either believe in textbook history in every detail or believe in orbital mind control lasers controlled by the Illuminati. Or just maybe that's a false dichotomy?

    There are reasoned critical examinations of history. Howard Zinn's "People's History of the United States" springs to mind. However, fact-based critical examinations like Zinn's don't appeal to conspiracy theorists much as they do not connect historical dots that have no real connection.
    Love me some Zinn. But he shows how it is constant struggle to rein in big business from choking as much profit out of the little man as possible. Also shows how big business is constantly seeking control of government to max their profits and protect or gain in foreign enterprise.

    CIA's back coups in south america so business could maintain their hold over their resources. Coups in Iran and Iraq, to back our's and britian's business in the oil. Harliburton making out like a fat rat in Iraq with no-bid contracts thanks to their former and now employee's Cheny.

    These are the things that textbooks don't talk about as well as the false flag that got us into Vietnam.

    Yes, Zinn can be a help in some conspiracy theories for the fact it highlight the connection between big business and politic. Not so much for 9/11. But I am sure the government will paint a pretty picture of themselves in history books to come. No mention how the sloppy and criminally ineptness of high officials (I will alway wonder about that sudden outbreak of wide spread ineptness that inflicted our top government officals) during the lead up to 9-11. How much will be talk about Bush's lies?

    A few years back Texas was talking about cleaning up america history books, to take away the spotlight on the bad period or incidents in our history, because they believe american children should learn to admire our history, not feel leery of our country. We don't need no secret sociey to change our history, there are some politicans who are willing to do it right in front of your face.

    Now to 9-11, Natepro and other constantlly said they iced all the conspiracy theories on this incident. This is only in their minds, there still engineers, learned scholars, ex-government officials,eye-witnesses, who don't believe what the government presented to the american public is the true picture. They are defending the government results, even though the government has lied, twisted the truth on many things in the past. It has showed a totally cold blooded will to take lives as well as not save lives if it would further their goals.

    I am not saiding we shouldn't never believe the government, but we should always question the government, because it's run by politicans. Just listening to this past election cycle, we know politicans like to paint a picture to suit their goals and not always the truth.
    Last edited by WES445; 11-14-2012 at 06:23 PM.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    well, this isn't necessarily written just for those people. That's why instead of putting it in the middle of another thread where it can just get lost amongst people trying to win an argument I just started its own thread. Just curious as to what people think of my ideas
    Don't let me rain on your parade bro. It just a never ending circle for me.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Out of curiosity, why do you never mention the FACT! that Moussad also told the FBI what they knew, before 9/11?
    So what's to be drawn from this?

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Don't let me rain on your parade bro. It just a never ending circle for me.
    No raining on my parade. I like reading ur posts

  5. 11-14-2012, 06:42 PM
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  6. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    So what's to be drawn from this?
    That they are an intelligence agency that, gasp!, had intelligence and passed it on to the country it would effect.

    They are, by the way, not the only country to do so. Weird how you never mention that, either. It's almost like you're trying to imply something else.
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  7. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    That they are an intelligence agency that, gasp!, had intelligence and passed it on to the country it would effect.

    They are, by the way, not the only country to do so. Weird how you never mention that, either. It's almost like you're trying to imply something else.
    So does this nullify what I said about Mossad? I'm not really sure what ur trying to say

  8. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    So does this nullify what I said about Mossad? I'm not really sure what ur trying to say
    Okay. I'll ask again.

    Why do you say that Moussad had foreknowledge, but never mention that they passed that knowledge on?

    I'll even add another:

    Why do you never mention all the other intelligence agencies that had foreknolwedge, and did the same? It is because they're not connected with the Jewish state, and thus don't fit your narrative? Or are you just unaware?
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  9. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Okay. I'll ask again.

    Why do you say that Moussad had foreknowledge, but never mention that they passed that knowledge on?
    I don't see what difference this makes

    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    I'll even add another:

    Why do you never mention all the other intelligence agencies that had foreknolwedge, and did the same? It is because they're not connected with the Jewish state, and thus don't fit your narrative? Or are you just unaware?
    Because not every other intelligence agency was seen celebrating and video taping the plane crash. Not every other intelligence agency said their mission was to document the events of 9/11. Not every other intelligence agency was in possession of white vans, fake passports, and box cutter knives. Not every other intelligence agency has been caught red handed in false flag operations AGAINST u.s. targets in the past.

    I realize it is human nature to paint a picture and then try and fit pieces into that picture, so I'm not a superhuman and I realize I may be guilty of this from time to time. BUT, I didn't pull my narrative out of thin air. There are reasons I think as I do, there are events which lead me to these narratives

  10. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I don't see what difference this makes



    Because not every other intelligence agency was seen celebrating and video taping the plane crash. Not every other intelligence agency said their mission was to document the events of 9/11. Not every other intelligence agency was in possession of white vans, fake passports, and box cutter knives. Not every other intelligence agency has been caught red handed in false flag operations AGAINST u.s. targets in the past.

    I realize it is human nature to paint a picture and then try and fit pieces into that picture, so I'm not a superhuman and I realize I may be guilty of this from time to time. BUT, I didn't pull my narrative out of thin air. There are reasons I think as I do, there are events which lead me to these narratives
    There we are. I don't know why you try to hide this **** as much as you do when we both know what it is you're after. It's so damned pointless.

    Anyway, let's examine all of this.

    Mossad had foreknowledge about attacks, but you and I both know there is nothing that points to them knowing the day, time, or location. The fact that men that may have been Mossad agents took photos or video of it is no evidence of this at all, given that a lot of other people that are clearly not intelligence agents did the exact same thing. Intelligence agencies from Jordan, Egypt, Morocco, France, German, the UK, and others also had some level of foreknowledge about the attacks... but they're not Jewish, so they're not mentioned here. There is no reason to think they had any more or less knowledge than Mossad, however.

    Then, we have the "celebrating and video taping."

    The video taping again implies foreknowledge, but that claim doesn't stand up to scrutiny. This is a part of a transcript from the interview 20/20 did with the witness that saw them "celebrating":

    MARIA: She was sitting when she heard a noise, at the same time she felt like it--it shook--like the building shook, she said. She called me immediately. She said, 'You know, there's--there's something wrong, look at your window by the twin towers.' So I grab my binoculars and I could see the towers from my window. And this is where I, you know, I'm looking. I saw the smoke from the top, just from the top of the towers.

    MILLER: (VO) After watching for a little while, something caught Maria's at-tention in the parking lot below her window.

    MARIA: Like a few minutes must have gone on, and all of a sudden down there I see this van park. And I see three guys on top of the van, and I'm trying, you know, to look at the building but what caught my attention, they seemed to be taking a movie.
    The foreknowledge of these men is implied because they were video taping and/or taking photographs. No foreknowledge of the woman is implied, though, even though she was already looking at the Towers when they started their photographing. If she saw them park, then the idea that they knew it was going to happen and were set up and ready to document it is shot all to hell.

    Whether they were celebrating or not, I have no idea. Neither do you, of course. The woman claims they were, they claim they weren't, and neither of us have enough to say for sure one way or the other. This hasn't stopped you from making the claim, but that is no real surprise.

    You also fail to mention that the men were detained for 71 days, spent time in solitary, had multiple polygraph tests done, and were repeatedly interrogated. And after all that, it was determined that they didn't have any foreknowledge of the event, or anything to do with the event. You also completely omit these facts.

    Were they Mossad agents? It's probable that at least a couple of them were, but this shouldn't be any more surprising to anyone than the fact that we also have intelligence agents working in foreign countries. I'll bet the British and French and Germans and Russians and Chinese all have agents in the US, too. But they're not Jewish, so they're not being accused of anything here.

    One other thing that you also omit, and may be entirely unaware of, is that the men filed a lawsuit against the Justice Department in 2004 for multiple millions of dollars because of their treatment, and the fact that they were held for 71 days and never charged with anything.

    So you tell me, Oh Abstract Thinker: Why would someone with foreknowledge of the event, that quite clearly got away with it and is back home in Israel, open the case back up again with a lawsuit? It's obviously going to be looked into in order to mount a defense to the charges, so why would a Mossad agent that knew the attacks were going to happen and publicly celebrated their execution then turn around and sue, forcing everything to be reexamined.
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  11. #115
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    can someone please generalize whats going on? who is saying what, so i can decide if i want in on this discussion, or at least see who i side with.

    thanks

  12. #116
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    i know i could read threw the posts, but im not that committed at this point. im bored, so i want to debate something... i just want to know what im getting into..

  13. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Actually, nothing I said has been debunked. Did you even read through your own links?

    I welcome debate with open minded people, I really do, both sides could potentially learn a lot...
    I already know all of your claims. I've seen them dozens of times.

    There's no basis for any of them.

    And whenever you are cornered on one claim, you will do what every single conspiracy theorist does. Just switch to a different claim, or go with the "Hey man, I'm just asking questions. If you want to believe everything the government tells you, go ahead!"

  14. #118
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  15. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawz View Post
    can someone please generalize whats going on? who is saying what, so i can decide if i want in on this discussion, or at least see who i side with.

    thanks
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhRUe-gz690

    Conspiracy theorists = the black knight.

    Skip to around 2:45 to see the debate that is currently taking place.

  16. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    There we are. I don't know why you try to hide this **** as much as you do when we both know what it is you're after. It's so damned pointless.

    Anyway, let's examine all of this.

    Mossad had foreknowledge about attacks, but you and I both know there is nothing that points to them knowing the day, time, or location. The fact that men that may have been Mossad agents took photos or video of it is no evidence of this at all, given that a lot of other people that are clearly not intelligence agents did the exact same thing. Intelligence agencies from Jordan, Egypt, Morocco, France, German, the UK, and others also had some level of foreknowledge about the attacks... but they're not Jewish, so they're not mentioned here. There is no reason to think they had any more or less knowledge than Mossad, however.
    I have already made it very clear in my op and in a recent post as to why I am mentioning mossad in this event. If you still cannot properly understand why I am singling them out, then I don't know what else to tell you.

    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Then, we have the "celebrating and video taping."

    The video taping again implies foreknowledge, but that claim doesn't stand up to scrutiny. This is a part of a transcript from the interview 20/20 did with the witness that saw them "celebrating":



    The foreknowledge of these men is implied because they were video taping and/or taking photographs. No foreknowledge of the woman is implied, though, even though she was already looking at the Towers when they started their photographing. If she saw them park, then the idea that they knew it was going to happen and were set up and ready to document it is shot all to hell.
    How about the mossad agent himself saying they were sent there to document the event? Should that be ignored?

    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Whether they were celebrating or not, I have no idea. Neither do you, of course. The woman claims they were, they claim they weren't, and neither of us have enough to say for sure one way or the other. This hasn't stopped you from making the claim, but that is no real surprise.
    Well, a lady said it, another man who I believe worked for that moving company said something very similar. If you believe that these seemingly two unrelated people just coincidentally reported the same thing yet have no merit, then you can believe so.

    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    You also fail to mention that the men were detained for 71 days, spent time in solitary, had multiple polygraph tests done, and were repeatedly interrogated. And after all that, it was determined that they didn't have any foreknowledge of the event, or anything to do with the event. You also completely omit these facts.
    The only thing I have come across regarding this is that those men failed multiple polygraph tests, and some people with that moving company left the country when they saw the others apprehended.

    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Were they Mossad agents? It's probable that at least a couple of them were, but this shouldn't be any more surprising to anyone than the fact that we also have intelligence agents working in foreign countries. I'll bet the British and French and Germans and Russians and Chinese all have agents in the US, too. But they're not Jewish, so they're not being accused of anything here.

    One other thing that you also omit, and may be entirely unaware of, is that the men filed a lawsuit against the Justice Department in 2004 for multiple millions of dollars because of their treatment, and the fact that they were held for 71 days and never charged with anything.

    So you tell me, Oh Abstract Thinker: Why would someone with foreknowledge of the event, that quite clearly got away with it and is back home in Israel, open the case back up again with a lawsuit? It's obviously going to be looked into in order to mount a defense to the charges, so why would a Mossad agent that knew the attacks were going to happen and publicly celebrated their execution then turn around and sue, forcing everything to be reexamined.
    So this proves their innocence? Are you aware that the Israeli attack on the USS liberty is an event which is celebrated every year in Israel? Who's supposed to give a damn. As bin laden said in his post 9/11 interview, there is a government within the government.

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