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  1. #61
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    Gotta say I love the trashing of Gruden. He's "Not that good"..."Look at this stats".

    Here's a good idea for you, Post Super Bowl for the Bucs, check in on where they ranked in Salary Cap figures. Its bottom 10 every single year after they won the Super Bowl.

    Know why? Because they have owners who don't want to spend the money it takes to be successful. Sure, please someone point out to me VJ and Nicks this offseason, but again, go look at their cap number this year. Its ridiculously low.

    I'm not saying Gruden is a golden god or anything...but I don't think many coaches will be able to "build" anything decent if they don't have money to play with.

    Lights, Cameras, Jackson

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianWestKins View Post
    With Gruden you get proven NFL success. Whether you people like it or not, Gruden was a very successful NFL head coach. And what about Bill Cowher? Or Mike Holmgren? Or one of the many great NFL coordinators in the league. Bruce Arians, Ray Horton etc. Kelly is the far bigger unkown in the equation, and no one is saying he can't be a good or even great NFL coach, because he can. It's just that the chances of that happening are very small. Most of the time when a college coach moves to the NFL, he fails. It doesn't even just come down to offensive scheme or whatever, it's just so damn different when you run an NFL team from a college team.
    Well....in all honesty.....Gruden's not really proven to have that much success, and he's also been proven to be unable to get a team out of a tailspin. In his time in Tampa Bay, his best season was with Dungy's team. In 2 years, they were a 5 win team. He only won double digits once after that. He finished with a 57-55 record in Tampa. That's not really very successful.

    Cowher's great. He's also a long shot. A severe long shot.

    Holmgren hasn't coached in five seasons, just ran the Cleveland Browns further into the ground, and really, had a decent, yet, not a super-grear run in Seattle outside of about 2-3 years. He's a proven coach, but he's not Bill Bellicheck, and he's only got one SB in 17 years head coaching, and only had 3 NFC championships. He's a good coach. He's also old, and at this point, I don't know for certain that he's going to bring that much more than Reid. Remember, Reid's a Holmgren disciple.

    Since when do NFL coordinators have more NFC head coaching experience than a college guy? They don't. In fact, they have none. Sometimes you get Pat Shurmur, sometimes you get Sean Payton. NFL coordinators fail just as often as college coaches, it seems. Simply put, I put about as much of a questionmark of a college coach as I do an NFL coordinator. Some coordinators are fantastic "yes" men, some can actually lead. You don't really know until you hire them.

    Hey, I'm not saying Chip Kelly is the go-to guy, but I'm not at all excited for Gruden (reason no one has hired him since), Holmgren (age and just ran the Browns further into the hole) or the slew of NFL coordinators, either. You run almost as much risk with anyone as Kelly, realistically. There's no real sure-fire guy. There's just a different group of problems with each candidate. It makes me think if Kelly has an NFL vision, he's just as good as the next.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 11-16-2012 at 06:02 PM.
    #WhyNot?

    People ask me, "Why here? Why Kentucky?", I said "Why not"? It can be done here. It will be done here. Lay the foundation. Recruit and develop. Prepare to win. Day by day. Play by play. A new era of high performance. Why Kentucky? Why not? -Mark Stoops

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Well....in all honesty.....Gruden's not really proven to have that much success, and he's also been proven to be unable to get a team out of a tailspin. In his time in Tampa Bay, his best season was with Dungy's team. In 2 years, they were a 5 win team. He only won double digits once after that. He finished with a 57-55 record in Tampa. That's not really very successful.

    Cowher's great. He's also a long shot. A severe long shot.

    Holmgren hasn't coached in five seasons, just ran the Cleveland Browns further into the ground, and really, had a decent, yet, not a super-grear run in Seattle outside of about 2-3 years. He's a proven coach, but he's not Bill Bellicheck, and he's only got one SB in 17 years head coaching, and only had 3 NFC championships. He's a good coach. He's also old, and at this point, I don't know for certain that he's going to bring that much more than Reid. Remember, Reid's a Holmgren disciple.

    Since when do NFL coordinators have more NFC head coaching experience than a college guy? They don't. In fact, they have none. Sometimes you get Pat Shurmur, sometimes you get Sean Payton. NFL coordinators fail just as often as college coaches, it seems. Simply put, I put about as much of a questionmark of a college coach as I do an NFL coordinator. Some coordinators are fantastic "yes" men, some can actually lead. You don't really know until you hire them.

    Hey, I'm not saying Chip Kelly is the go-to guy, but I'm not at all excited for Gruden (reason no one has hired him since), Holmgren (age and just ran the Browns further into the hole) or the slew of NFL coordinators, either. You run almost as much risk with anyone as Kelly, realistically. There's no real sure-fire guy. There's just a different group of problems with each candidate. It makes me think if Kelly has an NFL vision, he's just as good as the next.
    /thread
    To some, he was just a boy. A boy who played football, a football player that grew to be a man. A man that took over a city, a city that he made his own, a city that stands behind him in hopes of becoming one of that cities all-time greats. To some, 2013 was a fluke. To some, he can't do it again. To some, he got lucky.

    To us though, to the Philly faithful, that QB is Nick Foles. To us, that's our QB.

  4. #64
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    ^^ Pretty much.

    FIRE ME!


    I dont do five year plans other organizations do, I guess. - Ruben Amaro Jr

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Well....in all honesty.....Gruden's not really proven to have that much success, and he's also been proven to be unable to get a team out of a tailspin. In his time in Tampa Bay, his best season was with Dungy's team. In 2 years, they were a 5 win team. He only won double digits once after that. He finished with a 57-55 record in Tampa. That's not really very successful.

    Cowher's great. He's also a long shot. A severe long shot.

    Holmgren hasn't coached in five seasons, just ran the Cleveland Browns further into the ground, and really, had a decent, yet, not a super-grear run in Seattle outside of about 2-3 years. He's a proven coach, but he's not Bill Bellicheck, and he's only got one SB in 17 years head coaching, and only had 3 NFC championships. He's a good coach. He's also old, and at this point, I don't know for certain that he's going to bring that much more than Reid. Remember, Reid's a Holmgren disciple.

    Since when do NFL coordinators have more NFC head coaching experience than a college guy? They don't. In fact, they have none. Sometimes you get Pat Shurmur, sometimes you get Sean Payton. NFL coordinators fail just as often as college coaches, it seems. Simply put, I put about as much of a questionmark of a college coach as I do an NFL coordinator. Some coordinators are fantastic "yes" men, some can actually lead. You don't really know until you hire them.

    Hey, I'm not saying Chip Kelly is the go-to guy, but I'm not at all excited for Gruden (reason no one has hired him since), Holmgren (age and just ran the Browns further into the hole) or the slew of NFL coordinators, either. You run almost as much risk with anyone as Kelly, realistically. There's no real sure-fire guy. There's just a different group of problems with each candidate. It makes me think if Kelly has an NFL vision, he's just as good as the next.
    No ****. All of their impact players were pushing 30 when they won the SB. That team was in "win now mode". Dungy couldn't put it together so they called in the closer, also known as Gru-dawg.

    Also, the compensation payed from Tampa to Oakland for Gruden was; cue the drum roll please; 02 & 03 first-round draft picks, 02 & 04 second-round draft picks, and $8 million in cash...... that's why they sucked *** two years after winning the SB.

    TB mortgaged their future for a SB and it panned out. So his tenure in TB was a success if you ask me. He got them what they wanted, but they set him up to fail for the years following.
    Last edited by 25YrsNcounting; 11-16-2012 at 11:34 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by 25YrsNcounting View Post
    No ****. All of their impact players were pushing 30 when they won the SB. That team was in "win now mode". Dungy couldn't put it together so they called in the closer, also known as Gru-dawg.

    Also, the compensation payed from Tampa to Oakland for Gruden was; cue the drum roll please; 02 & 03 first-round draft picks, 02 & 04 second-round draft picks, and $8 million in cash...... that's why they sucked *** two years after winning the SB.

    TB mortgaged their future for a SB and it panned out. So his tenure in TB was a success if you ask me. He got them what they wanted, but they set him up to fail for the years following.
    So...he's the "closer". His only skill is to lead skilled teams my mom could lead to victory?

    He did nothing after that. If you take out his first season, the Bucs had a losing record under Jon Gruden. Yeah, dude's awesome.
    #WhyNot?

    People ask me, "Why here? Why Kentucky?", I said "Why not"? It can be done here. It will be done here. Lay the foundation. Recruit and develop. Prepare to win. Day by day. Play by play. A new era of high performance. Why Kentucky? Why not? -Mark Stoops

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillybirdblog View Post
    Gotta say I love the trashing of Gruden. He's "Not that good"..."Look at this stats".

    Here's a good idea for you, Post Super Bowl for the Bucs, check in on where they ranked in Salary Cap figures. Its bottom 10 every single year after they won the Super Bowl.

    Know why? Because they have owners who don't want to spend the money it takes to be successful. Sure, please someone point out to me VJ and Nicks this offseason, but again, go look at their cap number this year. Its ridiculously low.

    I'm not saying Gruden is a golden god or anything...but I don't think many coaches will be able to "build" anything decent if they don't have money to play with.
    Clearly what you spend on players really is a terrible evaluation of player quality and talent. You can spend a **** ton of money and have a ****** team (*ahem*... Eagles), or you can still be relatively conservative in spending and have a good team year after year (ie Steelers).

    You want to look at Gruden from a talent evaluation standpoint? Look at his draft history... In his tenure with the Bucs he only selected 2 quality players (Davin Joseph and Cadillac Williams).

    Look at his record with QBs... The best QB hes had was Jeff Garcia, when were in a QB crisis do we really want to turn the keys over to this guy?

    And look what he managed to accomplish the following seasons after inheriting one of the best defenses of all time for his super bowl year... Not a whole lot
    PSD's c_reinert

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illa215 View Post
    The "do some reasearch" comment wasn't even directed at you.

    As for Foles, please for thelove of God, they better not hire a coach based on the needs of Nick Foles. I don't get why everyone thinks that Foles is going to be a winning QB in the next two years? If at all, it's going to take time for him to develop. Why should Lurie cater he needs of a QB who may have no impact on the team's long term future?
    You still don't read what I post.

    It's not that Foles has the talent, it's that the talent doesn't exist besides Foles. No cap room, no available FAs, no stud QB's in the draft. So who else plays QB?? If the Eagles want to win now, you bring in a guy that can coach up Foles. It's not about how great Foles is. It's about reality.

  9. #69
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    The closer part was written tongue in cheek. But my point stands.

    He won a SB with Brad ****ing Johnson. The roster was, especially the defense, stacked but the core players were leaving their prime.

    In retrospect, he had no chance to succeed following his first two years there.

  10. #70
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    If Chip Kelly, Then Mike Vick Stays.

    College Offenses never translates into the pros

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 25YrsNcounting View Post
    The closer part was written tongue in cheek. But my point stands.

    He won a SB with Brad ****ing Johnson. The roster was, especially the defense, stacked but the core players were leaving their prime.

    In retrospect, he had no chance to succeed following his first two years there.
    Unless you know... He was capable of effectively evaluating talent and bringing in quality players to replace the ones leaving, one of those things expected of a good coach
    PSD's c_reinert

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gangreenseason View Post
    If Chip Kelly, Then Mike Vick Stays.

    College Offenses never translates into the pros
    Which brings up the important question: is Chip Kelly running a college offense, or do people assume it's a college offense just because Chip Kelly is a college coach?

    You'll find people on either side of the fence on this. There's no certainty to the answer either way. It's a risk, but I don't think it's a risk I'm 100% against, either.
    #WhyNot?

    People ask me, "Why here? Why Kentucky?", I said "Why not"? It can be done here. It will be done here. Lay the foundation. Recruit and develop. Prepare to win. Day by day. Play by play. A new era of high performance. Why Kentucky? Why not? -Mark Stoops

  13. #73
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    Chip Kelly >

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gangreenseason View Post
    If Chip Kelly, Then Mike Vick Stays.

    College Offenses never translates into the pros
    No way Vick stays, even if Kelly landed here no coach is going to place the future of their career in a 33 year old injury prone, underperforming QB. If Kelly comes and wants that college style QB, he will draft one
    PSD's c_reinert

  15. #75
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    Here is a knock on Chip Kelly.Watched them lose to Stanford last night.Every year his Oregon teams start off strong then choke at the end.Not so sure I would want him as Eagles HC.Oregon has plenty of money via the Nike alumni and get some of the best recruits in the nation.

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