Bargnani yes or no.

[Saddler The Gr8]

The team sucking isn't all Barfnani's fault, but if that guy is your best/2nd best player, your team is most definitely a piece of crap.

[Il Mago50]

"Bargnani is a scapegoat" so true ... the hate on him is ridiculous... .. i dunno about the contender thing ahaha.. but we have a potential playoff team here

Like I said, many will see it as a stretch but I see the pieces there. We still really need a true small forward and I would personally love to get a Luol Deng on this team to truly push into in the conversation.

With DD locked up, it should be priority #1 to get Ross into the starting SF slot since we now need to get him developing at another position with DD locked up for the foreseeable future.

I think this team's struggles have more then anything to do with the injuries then anything. They lost their starting PG a couple games into the season, which is basically like removing the general from an army and expecting to win a war. They lost the starting SF in Fields which through the rotations into a flux because players started playing with different lineups and in different roles then they adapted to in the preseason.

Finally, I think one of the issues is that these players are not yet use to playing with so much talent around each other. Bargnani is not use to having to watch others score while he waits for the ball more, which has increased how much long range catch-and-shoot shot selection has creeped back into his game. Derozen had the same issue last season and really never adapted to it until late into the season. Similarly, Lowry is learning where other players want the ball and when to call his own number. The team finally has a talented low post player which closes some driving lanes as a result, causing the whole team adjustments.

As silly as it sounds, our players are losers. They are use to being surrounded by lesser talent and the fact that it isn't the case anymore is a hard adjustment for them. They need to now learn how to play winning basketball, something that takes the collective group, not individuals.

[Bramaca]

Well that may have been. But that would hardly have allowed Casey to try to work with him. Unless you're also saying that Casey should have been hired to coach BEFORE the Mavs won the championship and BEFORE Rick Carlisle recommended him. Not so simple or straightforward.

I don't care, it's not that important.

[ink]

I don't care, it's not that important.

Maybe not to you but it was important to the franchise considering the investment they had in him. You don't just bail on half-finished projects. Problem is, Casey has been stretched so thin trying to coach offence, which isn't his strength, that the defence of the team has suffered. Bargnani looked worse than ever last night. Not over-reacting after one game but when you see regression like this, it's time.

[Jamiecballer]

Maybe not to you but it was important to the franchise considering the investment they had in him. You don't just bail on half-finished projects. Problem is, Casey has been stretched so thin trying to coach offence, which isn't his strength, that the defence of the team has suffered. Bargnani looked worse than ever last night. Not over-reacting after one game but when you see regression like this, it's time.

i disagree with the philosophy that you don't bail. far better IMO to invest your time and effort into a different approach than to continue with something that clearly isn't working. it's not like he showed any improvement in the areas he is weakest the first few years that you could point to as a reason to persist.

people seem to love that Colangelo tries to rectify mistakes but this is one situation where he has been stubborn as hell. if we were going to trade him i think the best opportunity was in those first couple of years when there was still some mystery left.

[ink]

i disagree with the philosophy that you don't bail.

Well you can't have it both ways Jamie. Either he sticks with a vision (flawed or not) and you acknowledge the vision exists, or he bails and has no vision.

[ink]

people seem to love that Colangelo tries to rectify mistakes but this is one situation where he has been stubborn as hell. if we were going to trade him i think the best opportunity was in those first couple of years when there was still some mystery left.

Oh there's mystery alright! lol. Bargnani is inscrutable. Such a waste of skill.

Their expectations of him have always been too high. It's not enough to be like Dirk in many ways, Dirk is an extremely intelligent, motivated player. You can't coach or teach that. If you could, other 7 footers would be playing like Dirk.

[Jamiecballer]

Well you can't have it both ways Jamie. Either he sticks with a vision (flawed or not) and you acknowledge the vision exists, or he bails and has no vision.

we are talking about the evaluation of one player, not the overall vision.

[Jamiecballer]

Oh there's mystery alright! lol. Bargnani is inscrutable. Such a waste of skill.

Their expectations of him have always been too high. It's not enough to be like Dirk in many ways, Dirk is an extremely intelligent, motivated player. You can't coach or teach that. If you could, other 7 footers would be playing like Dirk.

haha ok. perhaps intrigue is the better word.

[MT_malvern_vet]

[QUOTE=ink;24490792]Maybe not to you but it was important to the franchise considering the investment they had in him. You don't just bail on half-finished projects. Problem is, Casey has been stretched so thin trying to coach offence, which isn't his strength, that the defence of the team has suffered. Bargnani looked worse than ever last night. Not over-reacting after one game but when you see regression like this, it's time.[/QUOTE

You cant single out bargs, i watched the game again last night, everyone was making mistakes lowry, Davis, Amir,val, Ross was getting killed at some points although he did play excellent 1 on 1 defense on harden for the majority of the game. Is it bargs fault that harden made 4 3's? or lin had a good shooting night? or Asik was too much to handle for Val?

This is the same houston rockets that blew out the New york knicks defense isnt it?

[Freakazoid]

Maybe not to you but it was important to the franchise considering the investment they had in him. You don't just bail on half-finished projects. Problem is, Casey has been stretched so thin trying to coach offence, which isn't his strength, that the defence of the team has suffered. Bargnani looked worse than ever last night. Not over-reacting after one game but when you see regression like this, it's time.[/QUOTE

You cant single out bargs, i watched the game again last night, everyone was making mistakes lowry, Davis, Amir,val, Ross was getting killed at some points although he did play excellent 1 on 1 defense on harden for the majority of the game. Is it bargs fault that harden made 4 3's? or lin had a good shooting night? or Asik was too much to handle for Val?

This is the same houston rockets that blew out the New york knicks defense isnt it?

It's not just one game. It's a consistent trend that dates back to his rookie season.

[Jamiecballer]

You cant single out bargs, i watched the game again last night, everyone was making mistakes lowry, Davis, Amir,val, Ross was getting killed at some points although he did play excellent 1 on 1 defense on harden for the majority of the game. Is it bargs fault that harden made 4 3's? or lin had a good shooting night? or Asik was too much to handle for Val?

probably not but you can't or shouldn't discount the confusion that he creates with his lack of defensive IQ IMO.

are people breaking down in one on one situations? or are they running around collectively like chickens with their heads cut off because one particular chicken is never where he should be or late making adjustments?

i've always maintained that while both Calderon and Bargnani are both liabilities defensively that Bargnani does far more harm than Calderon because he impacts the group more and there is no defensive gameplan that can compensate for terrible awareness.

[ink]

Maybe not to you but it was important to the franchise considering the investment they had in him. You don't just bail on half-finished projects. Problem is, Casey has been stretched so thin trying to coach offence, which isn't his strength, that the defence of the team has suffered. Bargnani looked worse than ever last night. Not over-reacting after one game but when you see regression like this, it's time.

You cant single out bargs, i watched the game again last night, everyone was making mistakes lowry, Davis, Amir,val, Ross was getting killed at some points although he did play excellent 1 on 1 defense on harden for the majority of the game. Is it bargs fault that harden made 4 3's? or lin had a good shooting night? or Asik was too much to handle for Val?

This is the same houston rockets that blew out the New york knicks defense isnt it?

You're right. There is no way Bargnani can be singled out. Lowry was pretty weak yesterday too and so were a few others. Casey's offence and defence looked awful last night. They are trying too hard and too much and getting nowhere fast.

[HoopsMachine]

I think Bargnani and Kleiza or Fields (have to wait till after December 15) to LA for Gasol would be a good deal.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

[ink]

I think Bargnani and Kleiza or Fields (have to wait till after December 15) to LA for Gasol would be a good deal.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

I liked B2Bs idea of a three way deal with HOU-LAL-TOR where we get prospects from HOU and LAL gets Bargnani. HOU gets Gasol. I don't see the fit for him and his salary here.