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View Poll Results: Stay or GTFO

Voters
100. You may not vote on this poll
  • He sucks and needs to GTFO

    74 74.00%
  • Keep him, he is an important part of our team

    26 26.00%
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  1. #751
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    I would like to see how this team would play with Bargs and Calderon coming off the bench and ED Davis in the starting line up , it would force Lowry to use JV more on offense and it would also give our second line great scoring punch . I also don't think we should play Bargs for 40 min a game so it would keep him fresh now that he is rounding into shape .
    Last edited by thunderforce; 11-25-2012 at 10:58 AM.

  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Gasol is putting up 13.4 & 9.1 in 36 mins on 42% shooting on a talented roster that demands attention.

    Bargnani is putting up 18.7 & 4.5 in 34 mins on 41% after a very slow start on a roster that's getting no production from SF.


    If Gasol was capable of 20 & 10 still, Lakers would not be trading him for what people here consider a 6th man at best.

    This Raptors team already lacks 3 point shooting from the guard position,

    Bargnani is .379 vs Gasol .333 from 3, so the team would be downgrading further from distance, though improving on the boards. Considering most on the team outside of Bargnani are strong rebounders I would say his 3 point shooting would be missed.

    That said, Assuming Gasol has more value around the league, I'm good with flipping him for a young SF.
    B2B you have a very analytical mind, it makes you very entertaining to read. But it seems like your equations never account for the people part of this business.

    His numbers this year mean nothing. 14 games. He's been a 20 & 10 guy his whole career. It's his relationship with the team that has changed. He's never been given his due, but still, it was always Kobe and Pau's team. Now all of a sudden it's Kobe and Dwight and oh ya Steve Nash's team. He's been marginalized and slighted in the media for years and now he's even hearing it publicly from his coach. He's switched off.

    Remember what happened in Vince's final year here. Mark my words whoever acquires Gasol with get the old Gasol. 14 games is a ridiculous sample size compared to the 800 games he played at consistently extraordinarily high level.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    B2B you have a very analytical mind, it makes you very entertaining to read. But it seems like your equations never account for the people part of this business.

    His numbers this year mean nothing. 14 games. He's been a 20 & 10 guy his whole career. It's his relationship with the team that has changed. He's never been given his due, but still, it was always Kobe and Pau's team. Now all of a sudden it's Kobe and Dwight and oh ya Steve Nash's team. He's been marginalized and slighted in the media for years and now he's even hearing it publicly from his coach. He's switched off.

    Remember what happened in Vince's final year here. Mark my words whoever acquires Gasol with get the old Gasol. 14 games is a ridiculous sample size compared to the 800 games he played at consistently extraordinarily high level.
    Don't really think Gasol is still at that level regardless of his current scrutiny, that's my opinion, which is not easy to prove.

    All that's left to say is, if Gasol is traded here, I hope you are right.

  4. #754
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    Would like to point out Jamie Carter was 27 when he was traded to the Nets, Gasol is now 32.

    Separating scrutiny/distraction, from age/decline, is not easy. It may even be a combination of both.

    Fact, Gasol at 32 is not going to change this teams future, rather flip him for picks & or young SF & miss the playoffs, yield the pick this season to have a shot at Wiggins in 2014.

  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Would like to point out Jamie Carter was 27 when he was traded to the Nets, Gasol is now 32.

    Separating scrutiny/distraction, from age/decline, is not easy. It may even be a combination of both.

    Fact, Gasol at 32 is not going to change this teams future, rather flip him for picks & or young SF & miss the playoffs, yield the pick this season to have a shot at Wiggins in 2014.
    i understand what you are saying. i agree that it's not easy to tell what is what but i don't think judging him on 14 games compared to his hall of fame resume is fair.

    and i don't necessarily agree that he couldn't change the future of this team. he's 32, not 37. and i've pointed out before, although it's only opinion, that pairing a 20 year old center with Bargnani is not setting him up for success. he could gain an awful lot from the tutelage of someone like Pau. so even if you don't believe that Pau is the future, it's an investment in the future (Valanciunas)
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 11-25-2012 at 11:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    As mentioned I'm not against trading Bargnani, I'm against the thought process that Bargnani is the problem on a team who's starting SF average 2 ppg through 5 games.

    Considering how close most the games have been, any resemblance of production from SF would have made a difference to record..
    that ^^
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  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick O View Post
    that ^^
    there are many areas where the team needs to improve, and yes absolutely this is one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    i understand what you are saying. i agree that it's not easy to tell what is what but i don't think judging him on 14 games compared to his hall of fame resume is fair.

    and i don't necessarily agree that he couldn't change the future of this team. he's 32, not 37.
    Difference is Nash was to be added via cash, free agency.

    Gasol is going to be added at the cost of younger players & depth.

    Can't be ignored that Calderon has helped this team, early this season. Sending him out with Bargnani is going to further decline our bench which has struggled with Lucas leading it.

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    i understand what you are saying. i agree that it's not easy to tell what is what but i don't think judging him on 14 games compared to his hall of fame resume is fair.

    and i don't necessarily agree that he couldn't change the future of this team. he's 32, not 37. and i've pointed out before, although it's only opinion, that pairing a 20 year old center with Bargnani is not setting him up for success. he could gain an awful lot from the tutelage of someone like Pau. so even if you don't believe that Pau is the future, it's an investment in the future (Valanciunas)
    i do disagree with the fact that being paired with Andrea isn't setting Val up for success ... Pau would take away touches and rebounds from Val ... if were gonna miss the playoffs anyway i would rather get looks for our fututre center than for Pau Gasol
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  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    there are many areas where the team needs to improve, and yes absolutely this is one of them.
    Why not address/start where the team is currently worse, first?.

    Raptors have Davis who could start at PF & average 10 & 10 in 30+ mins. Gasol will only block opportunity for Ed, while the team will still be terrible at SF.

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick O View Post
    i do disagree with the fact that being paired with Andrea isn't setting Val up for success ... Pau would take away touches and rebounds from Val ... if were gonna miss the playoffs anyway i would rather get looks for our fututre center than for Pau Gasol
    What about giving Davis an opportunity to start?.

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick O View Post
    i do disagree with the fact that being paired with Andrea isn't setting Val up for success ... Pau would take away touches and rebounds from Val ... if were gonna miss the playoffs anyway i would rather get looks for our fututre center than for Pau Gasol
    Pau takes fewer shots per game than Bargnani does.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Why not address/start where the team is currently worse, first?.

    Raptors have Davis who could start at PF & average 10 & 10 in 30+ mins. Gasol will only block opportunity for Ed, while the team will still be terrible at SF.
    B2B correct me if i'm wrong but you are usually arguing that you can have a plan, but you adjust when opportunity presents itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    Pau takes fewer shots per game than Bargnani does.
    would he if he were here?
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  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    B2B correct me if i'm wrong but you are usually arguing that you can have a plan, but you adjust when opportunity presents itself.
    Don't consider a 32yo on a 2y contract no matter how talented opportunity when the team is this far from contention, even if he's everything you say he will be.

    Opportunity IMO is finding a 3rd team to get either picks or a young SF, do that then I'm on board.

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