Bargnani yes or no.

[Rego247]

no he sets himself up for failure by shooting **** %s, not rebounding, not defending, and being a useless piece of **** whenever he can't score. don't give him a pass by blaming his **** play on us.

Preach.

[Raps08-09 Champ]

Its debatable.

He may have more talent but he doesn't know how to use it to the fullest.

West also has strength and toughness on his side to make up for it.

I'm not necessarily arguing impact on the game. Just arguing that Bargnani, when playing top notch, is more talented than West, when playing top notch.

[Raps08-09 Champ]

Bargnani is the 7foot version of J.R. Smith. Talent, athletic but posesses nothing between the ears.

He's not that athletic IMO. But he's not an idiot like JR. He's just a quiet guy who has times where he phases out.

[Saddler The Gr8]

I never said he didn't play a part in his failure. It's just stupid having fans expect him to do things they already know he can't do. Expect what's realistic, not what you fantasize about. When you expect what's realistic, you can go somewhere.

I'm not giving him a pass. I'm just saying fans play a role in his own demise.

I expect 20 ppg on decent shooting %s, along with decent defense, and he hasn't given that. We aren't asking the world. Everyone knows he isn't a superstar. Also, people bring up his rebounding because it's a detriment to the team. We know what we get with Barfnani...let's see what someone else can do. This team is going nowhere.

Bargnani is the 7foot version of J.R. Smith. Talent, athletic but posesses nothing between the ears.

basically what i've been saying, except he isn't athletic. he has a deceptively quick 1st step though.

[Tmath]

I never said he didn't play a part in his failure. It's just stupid having fans expect him to do things they already know he can't do. Expect what's realistic, not what you fantasize about. When you expect what's realistic, you can go somewhere.

I'm not giving him a pass. I'm just saying fans play a role in his own demise.

Thats the problem, fans know what he can and can't do, thats why most of them have come to the conclusion that he sucks and its time to move on.

At this point, fans are just trying to tolerate his existence.

[gwrighter]

They didn't get the players because they were European. They got the players because they fit with the team.

If they want 2 way players, why do they have to end the "European experiement" when Europeans can be just as good 2 way players and basically black players.

All teams need 2 way players. Doesn't mean they have to stop looking at European players.

Doesn't have to be black players, I would much rather have Chandler Parsons over Linas Kleiza.

I just want two way players with grit & tenacity. I don't want the raps to play the Euro game anymore. I want to the raps to play bully ball. Lowry, Derozan, Jonas stay. Everybody else I don't care.

[Raps08-09 Champ]

I expect 20 ppg on decent shooting %s, along with decent defense, and he hasn't given that. We aren't asking the world. Everyone knows he isn't a superstar. Also, people bring up his rebounding because it's a detriment to the team. We know what we get with Barfnani...let's see what someone else can do. This team is going nowhere.

He's basically given 2 of the 3 you expect in previous seasons.

I don't understand why we focus on his rebounding but we want to trade Bargnani so Ed Davis gets a chance yet he has the same amount of holes as Bargnani has. Not to mention have a redundancy with Ed and Jonas.

[Raps08-09 Champ]

Doesn't have to be black players, I would much rather have Chandler Parsons over Linas Kleiza.

I just want two way players with grit & tenacity. I don't want the raps to play the Euro game anymore. I want to the raps to play bully ball. Lowry, Derozan, Jonas stay. Everybody else I don't care.

I'm not sure what your definition of Euro game is this issue is sounding kind of stereotypical to me.

Players can play with grit and tenacity regardless of where they are from.

[Tmath]

I'm not necessarily arguing impact on the game. Just arguing that Bargnani, when playing top notch, is more talented than West, when playing top notch.

I'll take West over Bargnanni every time.

You are overrating Bargs "talents"

The only thing he seems to be talented at, is sucking mandingo dick.

[Saddler The Gr8]

He's basically given 2 of the 3 you expect in previous seasons.

I don't understand why we focus on his rebounding but we want to trade Bargnani so Ed Davis gets a chance yet he has the same amount of holes as Bargnani has. Not to mention have a redundancy with Ed and Jonas.

he hasn't given decent shooting %s. look at his %s the last couple of years. We focus on rebounding because we're 28th so far in rebounding and have been getting owned on the boards.

Maybe with Ed we'll get better rebounding and defense, and it'll affect the team more. Ed gets easier shots with hook shots in the paint and no dumbass fadeaways. The only serious hole Ed has is 1v1 scoring, but who knows? maybe he'll play better with starters.

[Raps08-09 Champ]

Thats the problem, fans know what he can and can't do, thats why most of them have come to the conclusion that he sucks and its time to move on.

At this point, fans are just trying to tolerate his existence.

Fans always focus on what he's not good at when his role is to do the things he's good at. And when he does perform well offensively, there's never any credit because he didn't do the things we know he can't do.

Though I do agree a change of scenery would be beneficial.

[Tmath]

Fans always focus on what he's not good at when his role is to do the things he's good at. And when he does perform well offensively, there's never any credit because he didn't do the things we know he can't do.

Though I do agree a change of scenery would be beneficial.

The problem is, his negatives far out weighs his positives, thats why its hard to focus on the things he does well.

[Saddler The Gr8]

Fans always focus on what he's not good at when his role is to do the things he's good at. And when he does perform well offensively, there's never any credit because he didn't do the things we know he can't do.

you must've not been here when everyone was riding his nuts the first month of last season. nobody cared about his rebounding when he was on fire. When he's cold, like I said, he sticks out badly because he can't do jackshit else. And he sticks out often because of his inconsistent shooting.

[Raps08-09 Champ]

he hasn't given decent shooting %s. look at his %s the last couple of years. We focus on rebounding because we're 28th so far in rebounding and have been getting owned on the boards.

Well I was focusing more on his 17 PPG on 47% shooting. Not necessarily the 20 PPG but he's a high teens scorer more than a low 20's scorer.

As for rebouding, I guess I understand the hate for his lack of rebounding. I've already concluded he's going to get 5 RPG so I'm more focused if he actually does what he's good at over doing the things he's not good at. So far, he's not doing what he's suppose to do (score).

Maybe with Ed we'll get better rebounding and defense, and it'll affect the team more. Ed gets easier shots with hook shots in the paint and no dumbass fadeaways. The only serious hole Ed has is 1v1 scoring, but who knows? maybe he'll play better with starters.

We'll probably get the defense and rebounding, but the offense won't work IMO. It'll just make it difficult for Derozan and Lowry to score having 3 players who aren't too developed offensively.

[gwrighter]

I'm not sure what your definition of Euro game is this issue is sounding kind of stereotypical to me.

Players can play with grit and tenacity regardless of where they are from.

Fast paced offence with a lot of high screen and rolls. Raps only have 1 real iso threat with Lowry out in Derozan. When the game slows down our team is useless because they can't create for themselves in an iso situation.