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View Poll Results: Stay or GTFO

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100. You may not vote on this poll
  • He sucks and needs to GTFO

    74 74.00%
  • Keep him, he is an important part of our team

    26 26.00%
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  1. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    I think his talent is overrated by his supporters, but regardless...talent is nice, but if you dont produce, it means nothing.

    Who has more basketball talent, Bargnani or Faried? It's probably Bargnani, but I would take Faried over him 10/10 times. Because Faried produces consistently and you know what you're getting EVERY GAME from him.
    Hey if you can get Faried straight up then pull the trigger but my position stays the same if we can't get good value back for him then it's pointless to just trade him away for no reason.

    People are pushing the panic button and acting like WE HAVE TO GET RID OF HIM...

    Why? I'm not a fan of just giving talent away I don't think the fans or raptors management would either.
    Last edited by ghettosean; 11-19-2012 at 01:25 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by knicksfan42 View Post
    ...For me a large part of it is that they were rivals. LeBron vs Wade was a great rivalry and for them to team up just doesn't sit right with me. It would've been cool if LeBron had gone to the Bulls.....
    and Bosh to the Heat to join Wade. That would've been awesome... I would've respected LeBron way more if he went there.
    Why have great rivals when you can join them and have none.... Lebron James where losing the spirit of competition happens!

  2. #407
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    I don't think anybody wants to see him go for nothing, but talented players get moved for nothing all the time if they dont meet expectations...

    Beasley & Blatche are examples of that from this off-season. Talented guys who dont produce. Bargs isn't as bad as Blatche, but he's similar to Beasley.


  3. #408
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    when Bargnani was at his best and most efficient as a scorer, he was unquestionably the number 2 guy on the floor. even then (2008-09, and 2009-10), his overall impact was marginal because of the enormous holes in the other parts of his game. he was trotted out there 30-35 mins a game because of the promise that Andrea would become a better, more well-rounded player over time. we saw what Nowitzki was doing and imagined our guy doing the same thing.

    well by now it should be clear to just about everyone that it takes Nowitzki like efficiency to make up for all the short comings. that's the biggest obstacle to seeing Bargnani on the bench. it means BC would have to acknowledge that he's not the new Nowitzki, not even close. sad part is that the kid could really carve out a great career for himself in that role and that would actually vindicate BC.

    he's Mehmet Bargnani
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 11-19-2012 at 02:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  4. #409
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    I remember a slick, exciting Italian kid who had a super stroke and was wowing away crowds with wicked 3 point bombs. I also remember a kid who frustrated the hell out his teammates and especially the fans with his bonehead defense combined with a total absence of rebounding.

    What we have now is a little less of the latter and a lot less of the former. Basically the guy has mutated into an oversized clutz with practically no offensive fluidity remaining and a lot less grace.

    We should of just let left the kid alone and let him shoot instead of turning him into Frankenstein's monster.

  5. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by canzano55 View Post
    I remember a slick, exciting Italian kid who had a super stroke and was wowing away crowds with wicked 3 point bombs. I also remember a kid who frustrated the hell out his teammates and especially the fans with his bonehead defense combined with a total absence of rebounding.

    What we have now is a little less of the latter and a lot less of the former. Basically the guy has mutated into an oversized clutz with practically no offensive fluidity remaining and a lot less grace.

    We should of just let left the kid alone and let him shoot instead of turning him into Frankenstein's monster.
    i agree. can we do this over?
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  6. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer:24384667
    Quote Originally Posted by canzano55 View Post
    I remember a slick, exciting Italian kid who had a super stroke and was wowing away crowds with wicked 3 point bombs. I also remember a kid who frustrated the hell out his teammates and especially the fans with his bonehead defense combined with a total absence of rebounding.

    What we have now is a little less of the latter and a lot less of the former. Basically the guy has mutated into an oversized clutz with practically no offensive fluidity remaining and a lot less grace.

    We should of just let left the kid alone and let him shoot instead of turning him into Frankenstein's monster.
    i agree. can we do this over?
    I honestly don't know where we go from this point.

  7. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by canzano55 View Post
    I honestly don't know where we go from this point.
    reduce his role and give him freedom to focus on getting his own whenever he is in the game. you have to go back to focusing on his strength while giving yourself the freedom to yank him when he's shooting you out of games. IMO.
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 11-19-2012 at 03:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  8. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    I don't think anybody wants to see him go for nothing, but talented players get moved for nothing all the time if they dont meet expectations...

    Beasley & Blatche are examples of that from this off-season. Talented guys who dont produce. Bargs isn't as bad as Blatche, but he's similar to Beasley.
    At this point the only way to net any potential talent from AB is to make a gamble and trade for another talented player that is also struggling to produce like Tyreke Evans. A fresh start could benefit both parties.

  9. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    it seems logical to me but i'll be damned if it's not meeting an awful lot of resistance in here!
    I don't think anyone's against benching him. At least I haven't read that. Whatever the coach needs to do to maximize the team's effectiveness on the court, and it's obviously HIS call, he should do. Not only is he in closer contact with the players and the development of their skills, he actually knows what he's doing. He's not an armchair critic. That is my main problem with "we should" threads like this.

    Undoubtedly Casey is going to do everything he can to get Bargnani to perform within his systems. He has said before that he thinks pretty highly of ABs skill sets so nothing is being forced on him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    I think his talent is overrated by his supporters ...
    Is it talent or potential that's over-rated? I think his talent is pretty easy to assess; what seems to be waning with everyone is their sense of his potential. He has been a disappointment since Bosh left. The only thing that is difficult to work out right now is how to proceed and how to get the most out of what he is or what he could bring in a trade. I really don't see a lot of over-rating going on any more.
    Last edited by ink; 11-19-2012 at 03:48 PM.

  10. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    I don't think anyone's against benching him. At least I haven't read that. Whatever the coach needs to do to maximize the team's effectiveness on the court, and it's obviously HIS call, he should do. Not only is he in closer contact with the players and the development of their skills, he actually knows what he's doing. He's not an armchair critic. That is my main problem with "we should" threads like this.

    Undoubtedly Casey is going to do everything he can to get Bargnani to perform within his systems. He has said before that he thinks pretty highly of ABs skill sets so nothing is being forced on him.



    Is it talent or potential that's over-rated? I think his talent is pretty easy to assess; what seems to be waning with everyone is their sense of his potential. He has been a disappointment since Bosh left. The only thing that is difficult to work out right now is how to proceed and how to get the most out of what he is or what he could bring in a trade. I really don't see a lot of over-rating going on any more. In fact, it's likely that he is now being under-rated. But since his performances have been so mediocre so far this year, and he can't seem to find his stroke, he's getting ripped left and right. So, like I said, I don't see a lot of over-rating going on.
    but i think you would agree there are 2 very different sets of people here clamoring for him to go to the bench. to some people it's i've had enough of this **** bench his ***. to others it's strategic. some of it's knee jerk, and some of it is definitely not.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  11. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    but i think you would agree there are 2 very different sets of people here clamoring for him to go to the bench. to some people it's i've had enough of this **** bench his ***. to others it's strategic. some of it's knee jerk, and some of it is definitely not.
    Definitely agree. All that matters to me tbh is how Casey solves the dilemma.

    I fall firmly in the strategic camp. Whatever works.

  12. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    it seems logical to me but i'll be damned if it's not meeting an awful lot of resistance in here!
    seems so far the resistance has been weak

  13. #418
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    Well it is what it is

    A lot of the "supporters" are not overrating or up in arms whenever Bargnani is being criticized this season because...

    1. Bargnani is clearly not the best player anymore on this team.

    2. General concensus is that Lowry is the leader of this team and he has became a favourite of mine, so not a lot of us could care what Bargnani's fate may be

    2. We got Jonas Valanciunas who is a big man that we can assume will provide us the offense from the bigs, where I for one do not believe amir and davis are reliable and they do not have range at all

    3. We are disappointed in Bargnani and its clear that he lacks the mentality now. the main argument we had was that he wasn't a good fit on this team to show his true potential

    4. For someone that we are trying to build around, he always had a poor supporting cast but we're not building around him anymore. Lowry, JVal and resigned DD are our core pieces going forward. when we resigned Bargnani to that 5 year deal, it was clear to us that he was the main piece but that has not materialized, which is another main reason why we supported him, to see if we could get the right coach and the right guys around him

    5. we got the right coach, we got the right pieces (defensive center and pg) but he lacks intensity, nothing else to do but we're moving on

  14. #419
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    also i never disagreed with bargnani being benched

    actually a lot of the anti Bargnani members hated the idea of paying a guy $10million to come off the bench and that we might as well traded him rather than have his value drop (mainly the members who are fed up with him, understandably so).

    our response was that "What about Lamar Odom?"

  15. #420
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    If Jonas Valanciunas can get that jumper to be more consistent and stay out of foul trouble then I am all in for a trade that involves bringing a dynamic 2 way SF

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