Bargnani yes or no.

[Glenfidish]

If Jerryd Bayless and Calderon was injured along with Bargnani, how would that not confound such a stat? It's nearly impossible to create a casual relation out of it in judging individual performance.

Jerryd who? Were does he even play? That's my point! A bench player and yet another second unit player according to the league voices.

No way are there impacts the same as andrea's.

I gotta go to snooze.. Talk some other time.

[Freakazoid]

no it actually is unrealistic that we would be 8-0 ..... it completely is.... your posts are going to give me cancer

You do realize that Andrea's opponent production at the PF position is higher than Davis' or Amir's? And that Amir and Davis are significantly more efficient offensively as well. Without a net -6 PER from Bargnani, our close games would have definitely been winnable.

[Freakazoid]

Jerryd who? Were does he even play? That's my point! A bench player and yet another second unit player according to the league voices.

No way are there impacts the same as andrea's.

I gotta go to snooze.. Talk some other time.

If a team plays without a few of their impact players, how can you directly correlate their loss specifically to Andrea?

And we're talking about Toronto. We had very few shot creators last year. If our main PGs were not on the court, how would they have not had the same impact as Andrea's?

[Bramaca]

13-38 is disgusting i don't care how you cut the cake. I should ask you for a source?

16-35 is pretty disgusting too, which would be the equivalent of the winning % with Bargs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/

Go into Bargs game logs for the past 2 seasons plus this season and it shows their record with him in games (19-47, 13-18, 2-6) and then subtract that from the teams overall record which gives you (13 - 38).

[Nick O]

You do realize that Andrea's opponent production at the PF position is higher than Davis' or Amir's? And that Amir and Davis are significantly more efficient offensively as well. Without a net -6 PER from Bargnani, our close games would have definitely been winnable.

they were winnable with andrea.. and to say he lost us those games is beyond idiotic.. i just find it so funny that there are so many problems with this team yet everyone blames all of them on andrea... no hes not playing well but this team has so many problems its crazy.. and no one thinks you're cool with your stats...

[Freakazoid]

they were winnable with andrea.. and to say he lost us those games is beyond idiotic.. i just find it so funny that there are so many problems with this team yet everyone blames all of them on andrea... no hes not playing well but this team has so many problems its crazy.. and no one thinks you're cool with your stats...

You're missing my point. The point is that the games are winnable without him contrary to what the Andrea apologists like Glen are saying. This makes him expendable allowing us to use him as an asset to improve other areas of the team.

And god, your ad hominems are annoying, it doesn't further your point. What are you 12?

[Glenfidish]

If a team plays without a few of their impact players, how can you directly correlate their loss specifically to Andrea?

And we're talking about Toronto. We had very few shot creators last year. If our main PGs were not on the court, how would they have not had the same impact as Andrea's?

Neither of those point guards missed as many games as andrea.. And im not just stating last year im stating previous year. There were many games when those two back up point guards played and andrea didn't. All you need to look at is andrea scoring average and put two and two together and realize why all those losses with him out of the line up. More losses then wins.. And stop putting mr hand face palm.. **** i hate that ****.. Its my pet peeve..

[Nick O]

You're missing my point. The point is that the games are winnable without him contrary to what the Andrea apologists like Glen are saying. This makes him expendable allowing us to use him as an asset to improve other areas of the team.

And god, your ad hominems are annoying, it doesn't further your point. What are you 12?

lol right.. you know it's pretty immature to put so much hate on one guy aint it? . and i would use grown up words like hominems too but I don't have my community college degree yet hopefully I can be just like you!! .. but ya fine. im cool with trading him.. i have no problem with that. im defending him because the hate he receives is ludicrous.

[Dol-Fan]

lol right.. you know it's pretty immature to put so much hate on one guy aint it? . and i would use grown up words like hominems too but I don't have my community college degree yet hopefully I can be just like you!! .. but ya fine. im cool with trading him.. i have no problem with that. im defending him because the hate he receives is ludicrous.

It's unfortunate that the education system has failed us to a point where any of those words are "big"

[Nick O]

It's unfortunate that the education system has failed us to a point where any of those words are "big"

"big" ? ... whats that?

[Nick O]

It's unfortunate that the education system has failed us to a point where any of those words are "big"

also i said grown up so "big" shouldn't be in quotations

[Freakazoid]

Neither of those point guards missed as many games as andrea.. And im not just stating last year im stating previous year. There were many games when those two back up point guards played and andrea didn't. All you need to look at is andrea scoring average and put two and two together and realize why all those losses with him out of the line up. More losses then wins.. And stop putting mr hand face palm.. **** i hate that ****.. Its my pet peeve..

Calderon, Bayless and Andrea all missed games 10+ games during similar time spans between January to April. That's already significant enough to confound any correlations you can deduce from your stat.

And gauging a player's worth with their PPG is just a piss poor way to evaluate talent. Even Mike James averaged 20+ points once and even his PER that year was higher than Andrea's career high.

[Freakazoid]

lol right.. you know it's pretty immature to put so much hate on one guy aint it? . and i would use grown up words like hominems too but I don't have my community college degree yet hopefully I can be just like you!! .. but ya fine. im cool with trading him.. i have no problem with that. im defending him because the hate he receives is ludicrous.

Where have I shown so much "hate" towards him? It's not exactly irrational to request for a trade for him or to state his limitations. And honestly, a lot of the hate is sort of warranted when you consider who Andrea is as a player and how he responds to his critics.

[Tmath]

Tim Chisholm ‏@timpchisholm
@WolstatSun Could be, could very well be. I do believe BC makes a job-saving Bargnani trade this season.

Chisholm seems to think he'll be traded.

[Nick O]

Where have I shown so much "hate" towards him? It's not exactly irrational to request for a trade for him or to state his limitations. And honestly, a lot of the hate is sort of warranted when you consider who Andrea is as a player and how he responds to his critics.

people get on him for everything... even when he has a good game people find **** to pick at.. the hate is not warranted.. and its just funny cause less then a year ago when he was tearing it up at the beginning of the season people were on his dick.. now hes public enemy #1 .. how exactly? ya thats fine.. i wasnt referring to you specifically.. look at some of these people.. every other post they make on here is just ripping on the guy.. acting as if 99% of this teams problems stem from him when that is completely irrational.