D.a

[blakersburris]

Hue went 8-8 his first year as head coach.

D.A will be lucky to win 6.

Last year it was the coaches, this year it is the players. Same team as last year, but 10x worse.

And to the guy who stated that, "We were not on the verge of the playoffs last year." You are 100% wrong. If we win against SD, or pulled the win off against the Lions, we make the playoffs, simple as that. No denying it because it is a fact!

[themadstork]

If ifs and buts were candies and nuts, every day would be Christmas.

Aren't you tired of caveats and excuses? We weren't good last year, Jackson was awful and deserved to get the axe. Actually, he became unhinged...and deserved to get the axe.

Get over it.

And btw...we'll win 7-8 games this year. Count on it.

-Stork

[Snake Plissken]

Hue went 8-8 his first year as head coach.

D.A will be lucky to win 6.

Last year it was the coaches, this year it is the players. Same team as last year, but 10x worse.

And to the guy who stated that, "We were not on the verge of the playoffs last year." You are 100% wrong. If we win against SD, or pulled the win off against the Lions, we make the playoffs, simple as that. No denying it because it is a fact!

Since when has "making" the playoffs ever been a barometer for success?

Kansas City won the division in 2010 and held a home playoff game. The Raiders, had they made the playoffs in 2011 would have been bounced before Hue Jackson's Irish Coffee cooled.

[mal22]

when we play the Saints " If they score 40 or better" its gotta be on D.A hands

[dogdaddy]

Don't want to get into the whole who should have been head coach stuff, but lets look what has been going on this year. If your going to suck and make major changes on how this organization runs ..... then do it. Its like we have picked up from last year and got worse. Players are not held accountable. Players are not losing their jobs.

Reggie - Maybe a trade or two to show that nobody is safe. Maybe cut a big name to show that your messing with the wrong guy. Fine someone for showing up to practice 5 minutes late and make sure its on ESPN. Make some noise. Anything.

Allen - Here is my beef with him. No emotion at all. Its summed it up for me when the announcer in the Miami game said after three missed tackles on a TD "Wow those players are going to get an earful from Allen when they get to the sidelines". Right then the camera's went to Allen and the defense was jogging off the field passing him to get to the sideline and not one word. Not even a change of expression. It was like he was listening to music and didn't catch the last play. I seen enough of that watching Cable and Shell stand on the sidelines like statues. You look at all the teams that are in the elite groups over the past years and their coach shows emotion on the sidelines and the players respond and feed off that. If someone like Gruden had a fake field goal against him when getting beat, he would have grabbed the defense and ripped some butt. Not DA, sat back and took it like a little girl. The only emotion DA has shown was when he got lit up in the media for smiling during a butt kicking of a game. Also did you notice the Baltimore coaches with less than two minutes to go in the game was still coaching like it was the second quarter.

[dogdaddy]

Since when has "making" the playoffs ever been a barometer for success?
Kansas City won the division in 2010 and held a home playoff game. The Raiders, had they made the playoffs in 2011 would have been bounced before Hue Jackson's Irish Coffee cooled.

You need to raise the bar a bit. Making the playoff means you are still in the running to go to the super bowl. Also you extend the year one more game. Fans get excited and it raises your expectations of yourself and your team going into the following year. And its a hell of alot of fun...... Since when did not making the playoff have signs of any success?

[rubiconraider]

You need to raise the bar a bit. Making the playoff means you are still in the running to go to the super bowl. Also you extend the year one more game. Fans get excited and it raises your expectations of yourself and your team going into the following year. And its a hell of alot of fun...... Since when did not making the playoff have signs of any success?

Absolutely, making the playoffs is a barometer for success. It's one of them.Winning the division and losing in the first rd sounds pretty good to me right now.


AJ

[corralski]

Don't want to get into the whole who should have been head coach stuff, but lets look what has been going on this year. If your going to suck and make major changes on how this organization runs ..... then do it. Its like we have picked up from last year and got worse. Players are not held accountable. Players are not losing their jobs.

Reggie - Maybe a trade or two to show that nobody is safe. Maybe cut a big name to show that your messing with the wrong guy. Fine someone for showing up to practice 5 minutes late and make sure its on ESPN. Make some noise. Anything.

Allen - Here is my beef with him. No emotion at all. Its summed it up for me when the announcer in the Miami game said after three missed tackles on a TD "Wow those players are going to get an earful from Allen when they get to the sidelines". Right then the camera's went to Allen and the defense was jogging off the field passing him to get to the sideline and not one word. Not even a change of expression. It was like he was listening to music and didn't catch the last play. I seen enough of that watching Cable and Shell stand on the sidelines like statues. You look at all the teams that are in the elite groups over the past years and their coach shows emotion on the sidelines and the players respond and feed off that. If someone like Gruden had a fake field goal against him when getting beat, he would have grabbed the defense and ripped some butt. Not DA, sat back and took it like a little girl. The only emotion DA has shown was when he got lit up in the media for smiling during a butt kicking of a game. Also did you notice the Baltimore coaches with less than two minutes to go in the game was still coaching like it was the second quarter.

So you just want some fire on the sidelines?

This is just a question not intended to provoke a bad response, but have you ever been responsible for supervising a group of people in the completion of a task?

I have, and I've gotten good results both by appearing calm and by being animated. Different things work with different groups and it is the responsibility of the person in charge to make that assessment on an ongoing basis and reevaluate his stance given the specifics of the situation.

There were a series of interviews done after Gruden's departure and Callahan's take over with the heavily veteran roster and most were happy to see Callahan's somewhat laid back approach in contrast to Gruden. Full pad practices and tyrades on the sidelines were wearing thin on some of the veteran players and they weren't that bashful about stating their discontent, but only after Gruden departed.

The point here is that none of us really knows exactly what the proper posture is pertaining to this specific group of players, except that there must be mutual respect, along with the necessary mental and physical tools to get the job done.

I think that our real shortcoming here is the lack of tools but that's just one man's opinion.

We will only know the true effectiveness of McKenzie and Co's leadership if we allow them to proceed as they deem necessary and then evaluate the results after an appropriate amount of time. Three years seems about right......

[themadstork]

I can understand the frustration, truly I can.

But its far too early to criticize the new regime. Especially in light of the compromised position we've been, and continue to be in.

For those that have already had it with McKenzie and Allen, please understand you're more than likely looking at another 2-3 years minimum of Allen and another 4-5 years minimum of McKenzie. Continuity has been a big problem on this team, I cannot see us continuing the trend. These guys are going to get a long look.

These are your guys. And just like with the President....its time to back them.

-Stork

[dogdaddy]

I can understand the frustration, truly I can.

But its far too early to criticize the new regime. Especially in light of the compromised position we've been, and continue to be in.

For those that have already had it with McKenzie and Allen, please understand you're more than likely looking at another 2-3 years minimum of Allen and another 4-5 years minimum of McKenzie. Continuity has been a big problem on this team, I cannot see us continuing the trend. These guys are going to get a long look.

These are your guys. And just like with the President....its time to back them.

-Stork

I'm with ya. My point in a nutshell is that knowing its going to take a while to win on a consistent basis, go down swinging (if that makes any sense). Agreed Allen gets more than one year to make a mark and I'm not suggesting firring him, just want some fire. When I read about him when he was hired it was all about: He was a no nonsense guy. Very discipline. Defense wins championships and so on. Haven't seen it yet with "yet" being the key word here. Hope it changes.

[corralski]

I'm with ya. My point in a nutshell is that knowing its going to take a while to win on a consistent basis, go down swinging (if that makes any sense). Agreed Allen gets more than one year to make a mark and I'm not suggesting firring him, just want some fire. When I read about him when he was hired it was all about: He was a no nonsense guy. Very discipline. Defense wins championships and so on. Haven't seen it yet with "yet" being the key word here. Hope it changes.

I believe that Allen is a discipline guy, even being a little inconsistent, we can see it in the penalty yards. Everyone doesn't exert their authority the same way so the only true way to measure success at this point is are they addressing one problem without backsliding on another.

There is room for improvement for sure but this is the path I believe that we are on.....

[Shred003]

Let it all out, yell, scream, cuss until your belly hurts. This is the first stage of our transition.

Trust me when I say this, Allen, McKenzie, Tarver, Davis, they see the same things that we do and they're not happy either. You guys are going off on this bunch like they think that this crap that we have called football the last two weeks is acceptable? Well it isn't, not to us and not to them.

I know this is the NFL, parity and all that crap and we see teams make a one year turn around, but teams that make that turn around have a plan, they have most of the pieces in place so that one good draft, or a couple of FA aquisitions fill the bill and they're off to the playoffs.

This is not us, not yet.

By your own admission you should see that this is not a one year deal. Hell, most here that have a clue have us minus talent at no less that six positions. Just how in the hell was anyone going to get that done with limited draft picks and limited cash?

Hue Jackson? Gruden? Parcells? They could do better? Hell it was Jackson's quasi attempt to be general manager that set up the final chapter of this event, plain and simple.

I support free speech and all but some of this drivel is just plain not true and the next two years, barring talent not being available or some freak injury, will prove the doubters wrong, you will see.

Sign on for the long term plan, that way when the window for competitiveness is open for like five years you can all say that you saw it coming....

This is the first of about four excellent posts you've got in this thread.

This is / was a lost season. It was never going to work out. I expected a 6-10 team; I still think that's what we'll end up with.

This season might be tough to watch, but it will give Reggie a decent draft pick he can leverage into additional draft picks - and if he can grab a series of Miles Burris / Phillip Wheeler / Rod Streater types, this roster will shape up nicely in 2013, and will continue to improve in 2014.

[corralski]

This is the first of about four excellent posts you've got in this thread.

This is / was a lost season. It was never going to work out. I expected a 6-10 team; I still think that's what we'll end up with.

This season might be tough to watch, but it will give Reggie a decent draft pick he can leverage into additional draft picks - and if he can grab a series of Miles Burris / Phillip Wheeler / Rod Streater types, this roster will shape up nicely in 2013, and will continue to improve in 2014.

Thanks chief, it means a lot coming from an elder statesman of PSD....

[skyleralan]

It is all about personnel, we didn't/don't have the cap to put a roster together. It doesn't matter who you had coaching this team, if you don't have capable players you will struggle. Reggie and D.A. knew this season would be hard, but you have to make due with the guys you have.

You have to give this roster and the front office/coaches time to start building THEIR program.

[Raiders420]

Since when has "making" the playoffs ever been a barometer for success?

Kansas City won the division in 2010 and held a home playoff game. The Raiders, had they made the playoffs in 2011 would have been bounced before Hue Jackson's Irish Coffee cooled.

Well in order to make it to the super bowl you must first make the playoffs. I'd rather make the playoffs and lose in the first round than watch the product we currently have. In order to have a successful season, you need to make the playoffs first. Thought u were smarter than that. All off season we argued about the coaching change and you insisted Hue didn't have what it takes to win. So what exactly about Allen gives you the thought he has what it takes? You have no facts just your opinion, but the W/L record indicated, so far, that Hue was the better FIRST YEAR coach. And he had no off season and an Al Davis picked staff.