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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by shyfly24 View Post
    lmao, i guess dumars didn't learn his lesson by saving up the most money for one of the worst free agent classes in recent memory by signing the 2 top players in that draft .... cv and bg

    and now he gave up a 1st rounder to save money for this years draft class? lolllll. What a GM.
    Here's the link to 2009 FA's; Who would you have signed? And keeping in mind those who were RFA's, which teams wouldn't have matched or the player's own team who could offer more.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...eeagents062909

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by shyfly24 View Post
    Did I say not to make changes? Where did you see me ever saying to not make changes. And your making it seem like the only change that can be made is by trading CB and not even mentioning the other players. Why would you trade away the heart of the team? The player that makes everything run smoothly. Why couldn't you have traded Hamilton away for someone? Prince? I mean really?

    Joe D is the idiot that kept the exact same team for how long now thinking it would somehow be better then the year before even after getting older.

    I would've rather have gone into rebuilding mode w/ Chauncy on our team. Even CP said that Billups is the best guard he has ever played w/ even at CB's age.

    And DUDE SHUT UP! My statements are facts! Yours are assumptions. You guessing BG stats per 36 min is an assumption. Me saying AI and Hamilton or Gordon or Hamilton is not gonna work are FACTS. It happened, I didn't assume it.
    Shy, he asked "when is the time to makes changes?", "When would you make changes", etc. He's not lashing out at you, he is asking you to provide an example of what you believe were the right decisions to make and when. You prove what you are saying a good amount of the time my friend, but the other half is solely your opinion(a strong one though). Happy Turkey Day!

    You will probably make a joke about how old I am, that I was at Plymouth rock or something.
    Last edited by sdsportsfan; 11-21-2012 at 12:38 AM.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdsportsfan View Post
    Shy, he asked "when is the time to makes changes?", "When would you make changes", etc. He's not lashing out at you, he is asking you to provide an example of what you believe were the right decisions decisions to make and when. You prove what you are saying a good amount of the time my friend, but the other half is solely your opinion(a strong one though). Happy Turkey Day!

    You will probably make a joke about how old I am, that I was at Plymouth rock or something.
    nice 1

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    nice 1
    I call it as I see it. Happy Turkey Day!

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbutter View Post
    Here's the link to 2009 FA's; Who would you have signed? And keeping in mind those who were RFA's, which teams wouldn't have matched or the player's own team who could offer more.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...eeagents062909
    Dude my point is why would he save up the most money for that year? The year that had no one? And now he saving up the most money for another bad free agent draft class and gave up a 1st round pick for it.

    Do you not see a trend??

    Quote Originally Posted by sdsportsfan View Post
    Shy, he asked "when is the time to makes changes?", "When would you make changes", etc. He's not lashing out at you, he is asking you to provide an example of what you believe were the right decisions to make and when. You prove what you are saying a good amount of the time my friend, but the other half is solely your opinion(a strong one though). Happy Turkey Day!

    You will probably make a joke about how old I am, that I was at Plymouth rock or something.
    And I did by saying I would start by never trading CB. and trade anyone else on that team. Really?

    Naw I'll be nice this time, but I do think you should return your clip on beard back to Abraham Lincolns closet

    lol, oh facebook
    Last edited by shyfly24; 11-21-2012 at 10:11 AM.

  6. #81
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    [B]Dude my point is why would he save up the most money for that year? The year that had no one? And now he saving up the most money for another bad free agent draft class and gave up a 1st round pick for it.

    Do you not see a trend??[/B]



    First, you don't "save" for any particular year. It's really how you structure your contracts, when you're able, who you can get to come in for a minimum/vet contract. And on that point, how many guys are coming to the Pistons, particularly at that time with the core getting older, the sale, etc., are coming to play on one year contracts? Without overpaying for that one year, or maybe two at the most?

    Or lets say he "saves" until the following year. Who's coming in with our core, what part of the core isn't there, because you've got to get rid of somebody to create that space. Maybe it's Rip, because I think his was expiring. And with the sale hanging over everyone's head, how are you going to manage that? And who's coming in for a year, maybe two at the minimum or lower because of the sale? Why do you think there's always a tough bargaining session that is typically due not just the amount of money, but just as often, if not more, the number of years?

    And I don't like trading the pick for Maggette either. But I think we're young enough. There is no Shaq, Mourning, Magic or the like in the draft, and we'd have to have the worst record to have a realistic shot at someone like that. So we take another rookie, he eventually cracks the lineup in a year or two or do we try to make a splash and add a vet with our core young guys? Remember, you're the one who said we should keep CB to be competitve and not the laughing stock of the NBA. Essentially saying "be competitve right now" and worry about the future later by not trading CB. Isn't that what we're doing next year? Have a better chance at being competitive right now by hopefully signing a vet or two and not trying to work in another rookie?

    Second, you got to get out of of saying "I wouldn't have traded CB." Neither would I in a perfect world. But what other chips did we have that would bring anything? Either a player or two, or the ability to clear some cap space. I've already demonstrated that our record was either stagnant or going to get worse, if for no other reason than the age of our core, the maturatioin of Bron & Howard (at the time), and 2008 was the first year of KG/Allen in Boston, etc.

    Third, do you really think that trading Wallace(s), both 34 years old or Rip at 31 was goin to bring ANY financial stability or flexibility?

    Fourth, I believe you originally said you wouldn't have signed the two players at the top part of their drafts (CV & BG) during their FA status in 2009. Fine. I've provided the list of 2009, who would you have signed? Or are you going to say "I wouldn't have traded CB, so it's irrelevant."

    Fifth, he doesn't have to save and sign a FA next summer. We could take a contract back without having to give up anything or much of anything or facilitate another trade as a partner or with a trade, it could be used as a trade exception. After this season, I believe the cap tax really starts to kick in. As it is a $1:$1 for the first part, then 1.25:1 for the next 5M, then 1.5:1 for the next 5M, or something similar. I'm just not sure of the actual increments, but it is no longer just a 1:1 ratio regardless of how much you're over the cap.

    Finally, as stated above by others better than I did, at what point would you have started rebuilding/dismantling/re-loading?


    For 3 straight years, 2006-2008, we made it to the ECF's but each season we were further away from making it to the Finals. Do you wait until the next year? And when exactly is "the next year?"

    2006 Mia 4-2. . . . . Det had the best record in EC (Home court advantage lost in ECF)
    2007 Cle 4-2. . . . . Det had the best record in EC (Home court advantage lost in ECF)
    2008 Bos 4-2. . . . .Det had 2nd the best record in EC (lost in ECF)

    And you are asking me about trends? Uh . . .OK.
    Last edited by markbutter; 11-21-2012 at 05:35 PM.

  7. #82
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    why did we have to spend 20 mil in 09 instead of just waiting for the following year like everyone else did when its was a huge free agency.

  8. #83
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    Trading Gordon instead of Stuckey: Bad Move?

    Because nobody good was going to sign with us. Look at Chicago, they are a bigger more attractive market to most NBA players and they struck out in FA. They got stuck with signing Boozer to a big contract and he was plan F for them lol.

  9. #84
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    Soo the best we could do was ssign bg and cv?? Obv that didn't work. And don't act like those big nammes were the only players in that draft class. There were other decent players

    Again, supporting joe d when it was a clear mistake

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by shyfly24 View Post
    Soo the best we could do was ssign bg and cv?? Obv that didn't work. And don't act like those big nammes were the only players in that draft class. There were other decent players

    Again, supporting joe d when it was a clear mistake
    Hindsight is 20/20. I've provided the link to FA in 2009. But I'll supply it again.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...eeagents062909


    Who would you have signed? The one might be Varejo, but he was going to sign with Cleveland because they could offer more money. Odom? He wasn't coming to Det unless we massively overpaid. And looking how he handled last season with the Mavs, it's probably good we didn't go after him.

    Ariza? I'd rather have Tay.

    C'mon. Make an arguement for whom we would have had a chance for whom you would have signed.
    Last edited by markbutter; 11-21-2012 at 04:01 PM.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by shyfly24 View Post
    Dude my point is why would he save up the most money for that year? The year that had no one? And now he saving up the most money for another bad free agent draft class and gave up a 1st round pick for it.

    Do you not see a trend??



    And I did by saying I would start by never trading CB. and trade anyone else on that team. Really?

    Naw I'll be nice this time, but I do think you should return your clip on beard back to Abraham Lincolns closet

    lol, oh facebook
    You got nothing!

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbutter View Post
    Hindsight is 20/20. I've provided the link to FA in 2009. But I'll supply it again.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...eeagents062909


    Who would you have signed? The one might be Varejo, but he was going to sign with Cleveland because they could offer more money. Odom? He wasn't coming to Det unless we massively overpaid. And looking how he handled last season with the Mavs, it's probably good we didn't go after him.

    Ariza? I'd rather have Tay.

    C'mon. Make an arguement for whom we would have had a chance for whom you would have signed.
    Your not getting the point. I would have not saved up money for this draft class, so it doesn't matter who I would chose from their.

    I'm gonna stop responding to you, cause its obv you can't comprehend a 5th grade post of mine

    Quote Originally Posted by sdsportsfan View Post
    You got nothing!
    I know your old wrinkled heart enjoyed it

  13. #88
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    I'm not gonna lie shy, I think butter took you to the woodshed in this one.


  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    I'm not gonna lie shy, I think butter took you to the woodshed in this one.

    Right, give me an hour to analyze his post and give a proper rebuttal instead of posting random crap on my phone while im out 24/7

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by shyfly24 View Post
    Your not getting the point. I would have not saved up money for this draft class, so it doesn't matter who I would chose from their.

    I'm gonna stop responding to you, cause its obv you can't comprehend a 5th grade post of mine



    I know your old wrinkled heart enjoyed it
    Again, you don't "save." You can not "underspend" 15-20M (BG/CV ~17M) in any one year in the NBA "saving" until next year and have any hope of being anywhere near competitive or having your fan base turn on you. You can try to 'manage" it, like Dallas has last and this year by getting guys to take a year or two and even perhaps overpay, if you can get your contracts to expire all around the same time.

    If it takes you an hour to read and respond, you're the one with a 5th grade posting abilities.

    And fine, don't respond.
    Last edited by markbutter; 11-23-2012 at 09:58 AM.

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