Pau and D'Antoni

[shep33]

I love me some Pau. But I think he's gone by the deadline. The twin towers in today's NBA just don't work. Pau needs to be a 5. He can't do that here unless he's coming in off the bench. Kinda wish we could workzsomething out with the Bucks. Jennings or Ellis with Erysan and fillers. Hornet's for Anderson and a youngster. Suns for Beasley, Scola and Marshall. Maybe a 3 way to get Deng +fillers. I really don't want Bargs or Josh Smith.

Indy for West + Aug Augustine?

The ultimate trade would be Pau for Dirk

[FernandoMania]

I can't stand Pau's game for his size. I don't need a 4 or 5 to be a great passer. It's a plus but nothing to hang your hat on. You need a big to be STRONG & finish shots at the rim. He does not do that consistently at all. I think when he posts up, he hopes 1. To get fouled then 2. To get LUCKY and happen to make the shot. He spazzes near the basket and is much more comfortable 12 feet out. Trade him now while ppl think he's still close to being a franchise player. Get a REAL 4/5 combo player or a speedy, high scoring 3.

[GailGoodrich]

I love me some Pau. But I think he's gone by the deadline. The twin towers in today's NBA just don't work. Pau needs to be a 5. He can't do that here unless he's coming in off the bench. Kinda wish we could workzsomething out with the Bucks. Jennings or Ellis with Erysan and fillers. Hornet's for Anderson and a youngster. Suns for Beasley, Scola and Marshall. Maybe a 3 way to get Deng +fillers. I really don't want Bargs or Josh Smith.

Indy for West + Aug Augustine?

The ultimate trade would be Pau for Dirk

I'm in total agreement with everyone that Pau is a center. Pau's troubles began in LA when the team decided to make Bynum the featured low-post threat.

If the team tries to make D12 the featured low-post threat under D'Antoni, I agree that Pau is out of position. But I'm not convinced that's going to happen, for the following three reasons:

1. D'Antoni doesn't usually run low-pots offense or sets for any player.

2. D'Antoni should have an even better understanding of Pau's gifts and how to exploit them than most coaches in the league.

3. Between the two, Howared is clearly the greatest threat to attack from the wing without the ball, and if he gets the ball on the move he can dribble once or twice in order to get into his admittedly limited range.

As for Dirk or just about anyone else you can name, I have to say I see these proposals as a step down. What Pau needs more than anything is a specific defined role that he can acclimate to. No starter in the NBA over the past three years has had to make more adjustments than Pau, yet unlike virtually anyone else you can think of he's always done so willingly. Why? Partly because he believes in team ball, but also because he has a skill set that allows him to do so.

You couldn't ask D12 or Bynum to facilitate in the post or anywhere else because they couldn't do it. Players like Carmelo will get you points, but they're even worse on defense than Pau, and they're ball stoppers. One thing you can always count on with Pau is that he will look for the open man, and if D'Antoni's offense is about anything it's about finding open looks.

So: worst case scenario, it doesn't work out going forward. But I believe Pau deserves a chance to find a home and a comfort zone after being moved around the Laker offense for years. Plus having trade rumors hang over him for years. Plus having coaches come and go, when he was one of the few players who actively tried to change his game and help the team in that way.

[MickeyMgl]

I get it: if the sun is up, that's a good reason to trade Pau. He's never going to be a "real Laker" for a lot of fans for a long list of reasons that are at best stupid and at worst racist. But it's still fair to ask if Pau can play with D'Antoni.

To which I ask: did anybody actually watch Spain in the Olympics? Because I don't remember Spain playing grind-it-out ball against the second-best collection of basketball talent in the history of the game in the gold medal game.

Pau Gasol isn't fast, but he can make better decisions on the run and in the flow of the game than almost anybody you can name who isn't Steve Nash. D'Antoni's offense isn't so much about running and gunning as it is about taking advantage of the opposing defense before it sets up -- which is exactly what Spain did against the US in the Olympics, with Pau playing center.

Pau is our steadiest player in all aspects of the game. Kobe may be our steadiest scorer, but it's also clear that Kobe gets Kobe-lock sometimes and forgets that there's a team around him. Pau never forgets. He's a stabilizing influence whenever he's on the floor, and in a frantic game he will always be the player who hits the cutter or the open man.

Nobody other than Nash will make the transition to D'Antoni's system easier than Pau will, and that will directly translate into a couple of wins at least between now and the end of the year. If you really want to see run-and-gun basketball then by all means trade Pau. But if you want the Lakers to have a shot at title at the end of the year, he's one of the last person you should want to push out the door because you're never going to be able to replace him.

Excellent.

[MickeyMgl]

I see the Trade Pau! elves are out in force today....

So: before D'Antoni can even arrive and prove all the Pau haters right that Pau needs to be traded for perfect players who can do everything at all times and never make a single mistake, we now have an example of Pau needing to be traded because D'Antoni wasn't on the bench and able to draw up the right play for the end of last night's game.

Oh, and our starting PG was out. And our back-up PG was out. And today we learn that Metta was the one who had the brain cramp and dropped the ball off to Pau too early. And even at that Pau almost hit the three to win it -- a shot that if Kobe had taken it would have caused all the Pau haters to cheer wildly even if it was a long-range hero-ball fadeaway that missed as well....

I get it: if you hate Pau you're never going to notice the perpetual hypocrisy of your antipathy. The same people who are pissed Phil didn't get hired because Phil = Championship are perfectly willing to get rid of a guy who has helped LA win two rings, including one year where Kobe melted down in the deciding game. Who's now trying to learn how to play with the second big-time, lane-clogging center in the three years.

The same people who want Pau traded for a bucketful of new young guns who will wow us on every play are the last people who seem to know anything about play-off ball and what's critical in close games: execution. We didn't have execution last night because the ball went to Pau, we had failed execution because we had no head coach, and Metta () was making the most important decision on the final possession.

There's a part of me that wants to see Pau traded so we can get in a bunch of players who have no familiarity with the team or with D12 and Kobe, and who will probably fade when the heat's on, but I love my Laker team too much. So I'm waiting for D'Antoni to arrive, and for Nash to get back, at which point none of the Trade Pau! arguments will make sense any more -- at least until Pau touches the ball again. Unless he doesn't touch it enough, at which point someone will say he should call for the ball more.

I just read two almost perfect posts at the beginning and end of this thread.

I think it's fairly evident that the team failed on the final possession last night because it was a broken play, and a broken play shouldn't be surprising given the fact that they are playing without their head coach. Pau had the presence of mind to take the shot, and it was a good look.

I read somebody else last night say that Kobe was "wide open" on the cut. That's not what I saw. That person would have turned the ball over if they were in Pau's shoes. If Pau had attempted that pass, I'm sure that person would be biatching about the almost certain turnover.

[J4KOP99]

We let the Lakers, as a team, "off the hook" because they have not yet played with their "real" coach in their "real" system... yet we already ask to trade Pau? Doesn't he deserve some time to work out with the new coach in the new system?

I have been extremely hard on Pau in the past but with this situation, he deserves time.

[Cimos21]

Pau does all the things that don't show up on the stat sheet. Very unselfish. His defense is underrated. His game is not to push people around like Perkins and yell like Kevin Garnett, so you people think hes not trying. He is trying, and very hard. His jumper will round into form as the season goes on. Trading Pau would be a very bad idea because we wouldnt be able to get anything good in return. Our team would ultimately become worse. Kevin Love, Dirk, and Josh Smith ...lol those teams arent trading those guys for Pau trust me. Kobe likes passing to Pau, I dont think he would pass to Josh Smith unless he was wide open under the rim.

Let's look at another option. I personally think Pau will be fine and have a good season, but let's say that he doesn't "fit" D'Antoni's system like you guys say. Dont trade Pau, swap him with Hill in the rotation. Still give Pau more minutes than Hill, but if Hill starts he gives you that athleticism you guys all want, and then we all of a sudden have a stabilizer for the 2nd unit. I really believe that the Ginobili / Harden effect (6th man that should be starting) is the key to getting production out of you ENTIRE bench.

I still think Pau should start. But if it isnt working out, I would much rather swap him with Hill in the rotation than trade Pau.

[KingBossLAL4L]

Everybody made some interesting points.

But I must say u guys are funny Pau will never be what yall want him to be. Was he not the best big in the game when Bynum was out? Did he not avg. 25 and 15 at those times Bynum couldnt play? Did he not win a championship without Bynum? Did he not school KG the second time around? Now hes faced with another big to get in his way.

Let me explain why Phil isnt our coach its simple two words Bynum and Howard......Think about it when Phil coached and didnt use Bynum the way he used Shaq, Jim took over the control of the team and forced Phil to do it or leave, thats why Phil requested total control and Jim knew that and Phil is not the coach. Its all understandable I mean why take a chance on losing your future franchise player right? Mike 4.0 needs a job, a ring and this is his best chance( but there is always other team that would love his style).

So I say keep Pau don't let him be the one that destroys Howard for some other team that just needs a skilled big like Pau.

[GailGoodrich]

Some chatter about Pau fitting into D'Antoni's "system" from an ESPN 5-on-5:

2. How will Pau Gasol fare under Mike D'Antoni?

Haubner: The most fascinating player to watch. Pau has a chance to play a devastating hybrid role, a la Boris Diaw in Phoenix in 2005-06, given Gasol's similarly versatile abilities to drive, pass and make plays in the open court. Contrary to popular belief, the Amare-Shaq combo was very effective offensively under D'Antoni, and I'd expect Pau-Dwight to be the same.

Koremenos: This is the million-dollar question. D'Antoni's system typically calls for the 4 man to stretch the floor and that is certainly not what Gasol does best. But through double drags or roll-replace actions, D'Antoni can find creative ways to put him in good spots and create precious space.

Mason: Pau will be fine, because he's so talented, but he'll still be playing out of position as a "second center" next to Dwight Howard. His shooting is somewhat of an issue, and it's usually all he can do on a kick-out besides swinging the ball or initiating a dribble handoff. He doesn't have the quickness to attack closeouts off the dribble.

McGuire: Better than he has been. One of the few understated stories of the Lakers' season to date has been Gasol's unexpected disappearance on offense. I'd imagine D'Antoni's pass-heavy system will suit Gasol's talent well and help him recoup a bit offensively. Gasol's up there in the years, but he certainly isn't as bad as he's shown in the early going.

Thorpe: Good. There might be some experimentation here, trying him out as a stretch 4 and then also featuring him in ball screens. D'Antoni is creative so we can guess he'll come up with some good wrinkles to take advantage of Pau's unique talents. Again, his defense might take a backseat, which will cause problems.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...ers-new-regime

I'm fascinated by the possibilities with Pau, and I don't think anyone else on the roster offers such a huge range of potential. Really curious to see how it works out.

Also discussed in the piece: Kobe, D12, everybody else and D-Fence.

[ldawg]

I like Pau I think Him and Kobe was the main reason why La won. They would not have won without him that was proven. Bynum could not replace him. Under brown he moved away from the Basket but his jumper is iffy. If he can hit that 18 footer at a high percentage no way you trade Pau you let him play out his contract. If you trade Pau you better bring back a darn good piece. Not what they got for Odom.

[evadatam5150]

We do need shooters. Under Mike Brown, however, we never found out which of the players on this year's roster might become reliable shooters because he jerked them around too much.

One thing shooters love is freedom, and D'Antoni is going to give it to them. So we'll have to see.

After that, if roster moves need to be made, I'll trust the FO that brought in Nash and Howard to do the right thing.

I guess that's the point though no..?? I'm happy to be rid of Brown for sure, but as I've said before damage was already done and our team is what he semi built plus what he inherited.. Point is Management knew the personnel we currently have doesn't really fit D'Antoni's system.. It is what it is, basically they put us back into rebuilding mode.. Obviously the Lakers have some very talented individuals playing for them, they're professionals who will work hard, but that doesn't change the fact that they're still one of the oldest teams in the league that doesn't have a lot of pure shooters and they're not very good at spreading out the floor.. Essential in D'Antoni's system.. So unless D'Antoni changes things up with his coaching style, which is very unlikely, the Lakers are in for some rocky times..

Simply put, Management should have chosen the coach most suited to coach the personnel on hand.. At least we wouldn't be sitting here discussing trade options that really don't exist at this point in the season. We now have to see how this plays out and hope for the best..

[GailGoodrich]

I guess that's the point though no..?? I'm happy to be rid of Brown for sure, but as I've said before damage was already done and our team is what he semi built plus what he inherited.. Point is Management knew the personnel we currently have doesn't really fit D'Antoni's system.. It is what it is, basically they put us back into rebuilding mode.. Obviously the Lakers have some very talented individuals playing for them, they're professionals who will work hard, but that doesn't change the fact that they're still one of the oldest teams in the league that doesn't have a lot of pure shooters and they're not very good at spreading out the floor.. Essential in D'Antoni's system.. So unless D'Antoni changes things up with his coaching style, which is very unlikely, the Lakers are in for some rocky times..

Simply put, Management should have chosen the coach most suited to coach the personnel on hand.. At least we wouldn't be sitting here discussing trade options that really don't exist at this point in the season. We now have to see how this plays out and hope for the best..

I really think there's a basic point about the current Laker roster and D'Antoni that's being overlooked. By almost any metric, Steve Nash and Dwight Howard are not simply two of the most effective pick-and-roll players in the NBA, they are THE two most effective.

Except for the fact that this year Kobe Bryant is suddenly THE most effective.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what kind of basic offense we might want to emphasize, and that's the same one that D'Antoni emphasizes.

But it gets better. Most of the offense that fans like is based on the pick and roll. It's hard to defend, it's simple, and it quite often ends in thunderous dunks. And we are solid with players who can play this style of game.

The fact that D'Antoni once ran a truly crazy up-tempo game doesn't have anything to do with the pick-and-roll game. One is about offense, the other about pace. We don't have guys who can run all day; we do have guys who can pick-and-roll all day, and who will only get stronger the more they do it.

Don't confuse running and small-ball with pick-and-roll basketball. They may converge in some teams, but they're completely separate issues.

[Andrew32]

He's never going to be a "real Laker" for a lot of fans for a long list of reasons that are at best stupid and at worst racist.

That is pretty dumb considering Gasol has always been a class act and was the best player on that 2010 Championship squad.

What he did for LAL in 09 and 2010 should forever earn him the respect of true Laker fans.

[GailGoodrich]

That is pretty dumb considering Gasol has always been a class act and was the best player on that 2010 Championship squad.

What he did for LAL in 09 and 2010 should forever earn him the respect of true Laker fans.

That was written from the point of view of a Laker fan (me) who totally respects Pau's game, and doesn't like all the trade-Pau posts that constitute half the traffic in this forum. I was making fun of Pau trolls, not being one.

P.S. I hope you enjoy your season before Melo destroys it.

[New Power House]

Then Phil should have an statue by your own comments about Paul the soft! By the way Softy meets softy! Paul and NO D Anthoni! Keep dreaming new Zen haters out of the closet!