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  1. #1
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    Pau and D'Antoni

    I get it: if the sun is up, that's a good reason to trade Pau. He's never going to be a "real Laker" for a lot of fans for a long list of reasons that are at best stupid and at worst racist. But it's still fair to ask if Pau can play with D'Antoni.

    To which I ask: did anybody actually watch Spain in the Olympics? Because I don't remember Spain playing grind-it-out ball against the second-best collection of basketball talent in the history of the game in the gold medal game.

    Pau Gasol isn't fast, but he can make better decisions on the run and in the flow of the game than almost anybody you can name who isn't Steve Nash. D'Antoni's offense isn't so much about running and gunning as it is about taking advantage of the opposing defense before it sets up -- which is exactly what Spain did against the US in the Olympics, with Pau playing center.

    Pau is our steadiest player in all aspects of the game. Kobe may be our steadiest scorer, but it's also clear that Kobe gets Kobe-lock sometimes and forgets that there's a team around him. Pau never forgets. He's a stabilizing influence whenever he's on the floor, and in a frantic game he will always be the player who hits the cutter or the open man.

    Nobody other than Nash will make the transition to D'Antoni's system easier than Pau will, and that will directly translate into a couple of wins at least between now and the end of the year. If you really want to see run-and-gun basketball then by all means trade Pau. But if you want the Lakers to have a shot at title at the end of the year, he's one of the last person you should want to push out the door because you're never going to be able to replace him.

  2. #2
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    bye paula hello paul! like how he stuck his butt out on the post last game and got low. but gail there is only one problem here...

    pau excels at the low post, on the block. that is his strength and mike doesn't play on the block on the post. remember stoudamire he had no post game b/c he wasn't allowed to play it.

    and who do we have d12, mwp, kobe, pau, jamison all who's strength is on the low block.

    so turning pau into a 25 ft jump shooter instead of a 3ft low post player isn't good for pau and its one reason his rebounds is down b/c he's shooting all outside shots and why his percentage is down. pau hasn't declined in skill but hiis production was down last year b/c he's just been asked to do something that is outside his strength that is his low post game and forced to be a jump shooter.
    Last edited by mufridaz; 11-12-2012 at 03:00 PM. Reason: t

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mufridaz View Post
    bye paula hello paul! like how he stuck his butt out on the post last game and got low. but gail there is only one problem here...

    pau excels at the low post, on the block. that is his strength and mike doesn't play on the block on the post. remember stoudamire he had no post game b/c he wasn't allowed to play it.

    and who do we have d12, mwp, kobe, pau, jamison all who's strength is on the low block.

    so turning pau into a 25 ft jump shooter instead of a 3ft low post player isn't good for pau and its one reason his rebounds is done b/c he's shooting all outside shots and why his percentage is done. pau hasn't declined in skill but hiis production was down last year b/c he's just been asked to do something that is outside his strength that is his low post game and forced to be a jump shooter.
    Take a moment and think about both Phoenix and the Knicks under D'Antoni. Half the time they're bombing from deep, but what about the rest of the time? Easy, open looks and attacks on the basket that are facilitated by excellent passes -- which is why D'Antoni's system almost demands an elite point guard.

    But what if you have another great passer on your team, and he's seven feet tall? Are you telling me that D'Antoni can't figure out how to use this guy as a facilitator in the high post? I'm betting D'Antoni is salivating at the prospect.

    Pau's production was down last year for one main reason: Bynum was elevated in the rotation to the main low-post player. Pau can play anywhere. D12 has 10x mobility than Bynum -- and that was before Bynum's knees put him down this year.

    Name any player that you'd like coming down the lane behind Steve Nash on the break more than Pau. If the defense clogs the center and stops both of those guys either one will find the open man guaranteed.

    Finally, the idea that D'Antoni never noticed a mismatch and allowed a player to post up is crazy. It's not how his offense is designed, but he's a world-class coach and one of the few who could even take this job. If CP3 switches onto Pau or D12 in the pick-and-roll, I guarantee you the ball is going into the post.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by GailGoodrich View Post
    Take a moment and think about both Phoenix and the Knicks under D'Antoni. Half the time they're bombing from deep, but what about the rest of the time? Easy, open looks and attacks on the basket that are facilitated by excellent passes -- which is why D'Antoni's system almost demands an elite point guard.

    But what if you have another great passer on your team, and he's seven feet tall? Are you telling me that D'Antoni can't figure out how to use this guy as a facilitator in the high post? I'm betting D'Antoni is salivating at the prospect.

    Pau's production was down last year for one main reason: Bynum was elevated in the rotation to the main low-post player. Pau can play anywhere. D12 has 10x mobility than Bynum -- and that was before Bynum's knees put him down this year.

    Name any player that you'd like coming down the lane behind Steve Nash on the break more than Pau. If the defense clogs the center and stops both of those guys either one will find the open man guaranteed.

    Finally, the idea that D'Antoni never noticed a mismatch and allowed a player to post up is crazy. It's not how his offense is designed, but he's a world-class coach and one of the few who could even take this job. If CP3 switches onto Pau or D12 in the pick-and-roll, I guarantee you the ball is going into the post.
    Diaw is very similar to Gasol. Almost the same player really. He dominated in Phoenix.

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    I'm not a fan of Pau the last two years, just talking about effort, but he's the most skilled big man for sure, and he can run.

    I still have faith in him, he and Dantoni, it could work.

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    you saw his left handed hook last game. that is his strength. if he has to clear out of the lane to make room for d12's pick and roll how does that help pau's game.

    pau can fit in with any team b/c of his skill and unselfishness. but a lot of the knocks on pau is he's too unselfish especially when he's the lone starter with the scrubs out there. when hes' aggressive looks to score he's a beast. and everyone knows pau is great they just get upsets b/c they know he needs to be more aggressive at times and not always try to be the nice guy passing up open shots.

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    Lakers management knows this, that's why he isn't going to be traded. Too many 2k gms on here.



    Being banned is like going to a correctional facility, it doesn't correct anything, in fact, it makes you worse

  8. #8
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    2 games ago pau got 5 points and he makes 20 million dollars. kobe makes 30 but at least usually scores his 20-30 night in and night out.

    there is no reason why pau can't get 10 boards a game. last game he did well he was aggressive and got a ton of boards and like 20 pts.

    everyone knows pau is skilled, that he's a great player. they get upset when he complains about eveytime he is fouled and isn't called. or like when he grabbed a rebound and someone ripped it out of his hands. or when he gets pushed off the block. or when he's playing with 4 bench guys and they look for him to be the go to guy and he keeps passing up shots and there is 24 sec violation. phil got into pau's face b/c he knew how to motivate pau. he knew pau's strength is on the block.

    phil would yell at pau if he saw him jacking up 2 3's a game. and yet that is what he is now a 25 ft jump shooter. and since he doesn't follow his shot he won't get close to 10 rebounds a game this year. maybe 18 pts 8 rebounds. he needs to be on the block and will get more points better percentage shooting and more rebounds.

    sorry but if your making 20 million a year and taking up 1/3 of the salary cap space you owe it to your team and to the city to score more than 5 points in a game like he did just 2 games ago. and need to grab 10 rebounds a game.

  9. #9
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    @LA_SportsTalk: "If you're down on this move, you're down on Jerry Buss. How many mistakes has he made?" -- John Ireland. Agree or disagree? @LakersNation

  10. #10
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    Fact is, Gasol won't fit in a D'Antoni offense. If we don't make some trades to get some shooters or athletic Forwards who can RUN, this whole process of basically hiring D'Antoni and firing Brown, would be pointless. This is a Mike D'Antoni league. The NBA likes to RUN and is very quick and fast paced. If we had hired Phil or maybe Jerry Sloan it would have been a different story, because they both are basically the God's on half-court offense. We need to trade Gasol. Nothing stupid about that.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakeshow12 View Post
    Fact is, Gasol won't fit in a D'Antoni offense. If we don't make some trades to get some shooters or athletic Forwards who can RUN, this whole process of basically hiring D'Antoni and firing Brown, would be pointless. This is a Mike D'Antoni league. The NBA likes to RUN and is very quick and fast paced. If we had hired Phil or maybe Jerry Sloan it would have been a different story, because they both are basically the God's on half-court offense. We need to trade Gasol. Nothing stupid about that.
    No we dont trade Pau we never gonna be as fast as OKC or Miami.

    IF it doesnt work we go into production of FIRE MIKE 2

  12. #12
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    I see the Trade Pau! elves are out in force today....

    So: before D'Antoni can even arrive and prove all the Pau haters right that Pau needs to be traded for perfect players who can do everything at all times and never make a single mistake, we now have an example of Pau needing to be traded because D'Antoni wasn't on the bench and able to draw up the right play for the end of last night's game.

    Oh, and our starting PG was out. And our back-up PG was out. And today we learn that Metta was the one who had the brain cramp and dropped the ball off to Pau too early. And even at that Pau almost hit the three to win it -- a shot that if Kobe had taken it would have caused all the Pau haters to cheer wildly even if it was a long-range hero-ball fadeaway that missed as well....

    I get it: if you hate Pau you're never going to notice the perpetual hypocrisy of your antipathy. The same people who are pissed Phil didn't get hired because Phil = Championship are perfectly willing to get rid of a guy who has helped LA win two rings, including one year where Kobe melted down in the deciding game. Who's now trying to learn how to play with the second big-time, lane-clogging center in the three years.

    The same people who want Pau traded for a bucketful of new young guns who will wow us on every play are the last people who seem to know anything about play-off ball and what's critical in close games: execution. We didn't have execution last night because the ball went to Pau, we had failed execution because we had no head coach, and Metta () was making the most important decision on the final possession.

    There's a part of me that wants to see Pau traded so we can get in a bunch of players who have no familiarity with the team or with D12 and Kobe, and who will probably fade when the heat's on, but I love my Laker team too much. So I'm waiting for D'Antoni to arrive, and for Nash to get back, at which point none of the Trade Pau! arguments will make sense any more -- at least until Pau touches the ball again. Unless he doesn't touch it enough, at which point someone will say he should call for the ball more.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GailGoodrich View Post
    I see the Trade Pau! elves are out in force today....

    So: before D'Antoni can even arrive and prove all the Pau haters right that Pau needs to be traded for perfect players who can do everything at all times and never make a single mistake, we now have an example of Pau needing to be traded because D'Antoni wasn't on the bench and able to draw up the right play for the end of last night's game.

    Oh, and our starting PG was out. And our back-up PG was out. And today we learn that Metta was the one who had the brain cramp and dropped the ball off to Pau too early. And even at that Pau almost hit the three to win it -- a shot that if Kobe had taken it would have caused all the Pau haters to cheer wildly even if it was a long-range hero-ball fadeaway that missed as well....

    I get it: if you hate Pau you're never going to notice the perpetual hypocrisy of your antipathy. The same people who are pissed Phil didn't get hired because Phil = Championship are perfectly willing to get rid of a guy who has helped LA win two rings, including one year where Kobe melted down in the deciding game. Who's now trying to learn how to play with the second big-time, lane-clogging center in the three years.

    The same people who want Pau traded for a bucketful of new young guns who will wow us on every play are the last people who seem to know anything about play-off ball and what's critical in close games: execution. We didn't have execution last night because the ball went to Pau, we had failed execution because we had no head coach, and Metta () was making the most important decision on the final possession.

    There's a part of me that wants to see Pau traded so we can get in a bunch of players who have no familiarity with the team or with D12 and Kobe, and who will probably fade when the heat's on, but I love my Laker team too much. So I'm waiting for D'Antoni to arrive, and for Nash to get back, at which point none of the Trade Pau! arguments will make sense any more -- at least until Pau touches the ball again. Unless he doesn't touch it enough, at which point someone will say he should call for the ball more.
    I just read two almost perfect posts at the beginning and end of this thread.

    I think it's fairly evident that the team failed on the final possession last night because it was a broken play, and a broken play shouldn't be surprising given the fact that they are playing without their head coach. Pau had the presence of mind to take the shot, and it was a good look.

    I read somebody else last night say that Kobe was "wide open" on the cut. That's not what I saw. That person would have turned the ball over if they were in Pau's shoes. If Pau had attempted that pass, I'm sure that person would be biatching about the almost certain turnover.

  14. #14
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    Some chatter about Pau fitting into D'Antoni's "system" from an ESPN 5-on-5:

    2. How will Pau Gasol fare under Mike D'Antoni?

    Haubner: The most fascinating player to watch. Pau has a chance to play a devastating hybrid role, a la Boris Diaw in Phoenix in 2005-06, given Gasol's similarly versatile abilities to drive, pass and make plays in the open court. Contrary to popular belief, the Amare-Shaq combo was very effective offensively under D'Antoni, and I'd expect Pau-Dwight to be the same.

    Koremenos: This is the million-dollar question. D'Antoni's system typically calls for the 4 man to stretch the floor and that is certainly not what Gasol does best. But through double drags or roll-replace actions, D'Antoni can find creative ways to put him in good spots and create precious space.

    Mason: Pau will be fine, because he's so talented, but he'll still be playing out of position as a "second center" next to Dwight Howard. His shooting is somewhat of an issue, and it's usually all he can do on a kick-out besides swinging the ball or initiating a dribble handoff. He doesn't have the quickness to attack closeouts off the dribble.

    McGuire: Better than he has been. One of the few understated stories of the Lakers' season to date has been Gasol's unexpected disappearance on offense. I'd imagine D'Antoni's pass-heavy system will suit Gasol's talent well and help him recoup a bit offensively. Gasol's up there in the years, but he certainly isn't as bad as he's shown in the early going.

    Thorpe: Good. There might be some experimentation here, trying him out as a stretch 4 and then also featuring him in ball screens. D'Antoni is creative so we can guess he'll come up with some good wrinkles to take advantage of Pau's unique talents. Again, his defense might take a backseat, which will cause problems.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...ers-new-regime
    I'm fascinated by the possibilities with Pau, and I don't think anyone else on the roster offers such a huge range of potential. Really curious to see how it works out.

    Also discussed in the piece: Kobe, D12, everybody else and D-Fence.

  15. #15
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    I am now convinced that people are never going to stop talking about trading Pau.

    I'm even at the point where I actually hope the Lakers do trade Pau so everybody can see what life will be like without him. Because I can't think of a basketball player who ever did more for the Lakers while getting less respect. The team has two rings -- which Kobe couldn't have won without him -- but he's still blamed for everything.

    I said last week that the main reason for keeping Pau in the D'Antoni offense is that he's the only 7-foot player you can name who can play both positions in the pick and roll. Last night, while watching NBA tonight, Tim Legler said (paraphrasing): "I saw something tonight that I've never seen before. I saw Pau gasol playing the pick and roll with Dwight Howard. And it was effective. And I don't see how anyone could ever stop that play because of their size."

    Last night against Brooklyn Pau came close to a triple double, yet almost everyone was ignoring that and blaming him for giving up points to Lopez -- even when Pau wasn't on the floor and/or Howard was actually covering Lopez. So the haters are never going to actually see Pau for the player he is and respect his game.

    But if you're on the fence, and you're wondering why the Laker should not trade Pau, here's the thing you should fear the most. For all of his own whining and *****ing at Pau, there's nobody on the roster that Kobe trusts more. Those two guys have been through the wars, and while Kobe, like lots of Laker fans, wishes Pau would be a brute all the time, the bottom line is that Pau makes fewer boneheaded plays than anyone you could trade Pau for, and that's before you factor in the high standards Kobe has for teammates.

    How many players are there in the world who could both live up to Kobe's expectations and take all the **** that Kobe dishes out? I'm guessing maybe a handful, and most of them don't have Pau's size and skillz.

    So while you're imaging Pau being traded for the greatest shooter in the history of the world, or the greatest dunker, or whatever gets you off, try to imagine this sequence without Pau on the roster:

    Bryant drove right past Gerald Wallace, but was forced to pick up his dribble when Brook Lopez stepped up to cut him off just below the foul line.

    In true Bryant form, he already left his feet when Lopez collapsed on him, but was able to turn around in midair and pass it out to Pau Gasol who came to the ball to catch it at the top of the key. (Sidenote: Bryant leaving his feet before he passes is easily the most frustrating part of his game to see over and over again. For being as fundamentally strong as he is, he chooses to break this cardinal rule of basketball way too much.)

    Bryant then came back out to the wing to get it back from Gasol and positioned his body in a way -- shoulders square to the rim with his feet spread apart enough to give him a good base -- that Wallace and Lopez both closed out on him, thinking he was going to shoot. Rather than shoot it, Bryant flipped a pass over Wallace's head to Gasol who was cutting towards the free throw line.

    When Kris Humphries saw Gasol coming down the lane with the ball in his hands, he left Dwight Howard who he was checking on the baseline to cut off the Spaniard.

    Then Gasol, seeing that Howard was as open as the day is long, immediately threw a lob pass that Howard caught and threw down for an alley-oop dunk.

    That made it a tied game, 86-86, with 3:05 remaining. The Lakers made the dominoes fall and never looked back.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/...ajor-potential
    Or read the bottom of this Grantland post on gunners:

    Gasol doesn't fit this category at all, but it'd be remiss to overlook the puzzling determination among a segment of Laker fans to deal one of the league's great all-around players. That's not to say there are no grounds for trading Gasol. As I've written before, he's a center the Lakers have had to shoehorn into a power forward role over the last two seasons, a makeshift setup that (along with shaky perimeter shooting at other positions) cramps the Lakers' spacing; there's a reason the Lakers almost always closed games with Lamar Odom and just one of the Gasol/Bynum duo, back when Odom was actually an NBA player. With three $1 players already onboard, it might make sense to deal Gasol for two 65-cent players who bring shooting and fit Mike D'Antoni's offense. (Let's ignore that one of those $1 players is recovering from back surgery, and another is almost 39 and dealing with a broken leg.)

    But the "trade Gasol" fervor has masked in some corners of Laker Land what a brilliant player Gasol is. And though Kobe Bryant has backed Gasol publicly, his habit of chastising Gasol for alleged passivity, including after Bryant shot the Lakers out of Game 4 against the Thunder last season, has emboldened that fervor.

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...chuckers-squad
    Or think about Kobe's effectiveness at the end of close games if Pau isn't around. Is Kobe going to look for anyone else, or is he going to be even more likely to play hero ball? Do the Lakers have more options and better spacing with Pau gone, or fewer?

    If the Lakers trade Pau, the team, the franchise and the fans will get what they deserve. The Lakers will be a more exciting team that won't have the smarts, trust or experience to win a title this year, or probably next.

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