The MVP at this point

[More-Than-Most]

Well I guess you're voting on the Most Outstanding Statistical Performance Player. I'm talking about the MVP? As in Most Valuable Player. It's not about stats.

That team did not believe they could win a game at times last year. They had no confidence. It was a can't do attitude. That has entirely changed.

I see 4 more wins there too. You nev er know they could get more. If they win 8 or 9 more games than next year, he SHOULD be in consideration despite the stats. I've never seen stats be so misleading towards a player anyways.

Oh come on Norm they were clearly tanking and their play alone proved that. Luck is not the only one all of a sudden playing great for that team. This Argument should clearly point the way of AP then correct? They are 6-4 and nobody had them coming close to having one of the best records in the league but they do....What about Freeman and what he is doing with Tampa? Your making a case for luck but other qbs are doing the same thing but doing it better and with a team that had no hopes and have surprised people...What about Dalton and the Bengals?

[More-Than-Most]

In fact how is freeman not an option?

[odiz]

Well I guess you're voting on the Most Outstanding Statistical Performance Player. I'm talking about the MVP? As in Most Valuable Player. It's not about stats.

That team did not believe they could win a game at times last year. They had no confidence. It was a can't do attitude. That has entirely changed.

I see 4 more wins there too. You nev er know they could get more. If they win 8 or 9 more games than next year, he SHOULD be in consideration despite the stats. I've never seen stats be so misleading towards a player anyways.

Luck isnt the only thing that changed for that franchise, they also have a new GM, a new coach, a new defensive scheme and they released a lot of veteran players from last years team.
I realize stats don't tell the whole story but his arent even average, theyre pretty bad.

Also look at who the Colts have played. Their 4 game win streak consists of beating the Jags, Dolphins, Titans and Browns. With the exception of the Jags they were all beaten by less than 7 points. They have also lost to the Jags and been rocked by the Jets. The Green Bay game was nice, ill give him that. Like i said he's shown flashes.

But really considering how bad his stats are and how easy the Colts schedule has been its pretty ridiculous to put him in this discussion.

[More-Than-Most]

John fox, for taking a chance on the better Manning.

I guess I deserve some votes for preaching this before anyone? Hell if you guys had me as your GM the Eagles would likely be undefeated with big brother manning right now.

[NormSizedMidget]

Luck isnt the only thing that changed for that franchise, they also have a new GM, a new coach, a new defensive scheme and they released a lot of veteran players from last years team.
I realize stats don't tell the whole story but his arent even average, theyre pretty bad.

Also look at who the Colts have played. Their 4 game win streak consists of beating the Jags, Dolphins, Titans and Browns. With the exception of the Jags they were all beaten by less than 7 points. They have also lost to the Jags and been rocked by the Jets. The Green Bay game was nice, ill give him that. Like i said he's shown flashes.

But really considering how bad his stats are and how easy the Colts schedule has been its pretty ridiculous to put him in this discussion.

A new coach who isn't there a new defensive scheme that half their roster doesn't fit and a new GM who from what I was told, had the 2nd worst roster to start the year.

Nothing in that list typically helps you win. The culture change, IMO, started with Andrew more than anything else.


I guess if we want pretend the NFL is the MLB and everything is equal we can keep using stats....Luck has been possibly the biggest x factor to anyone team this year. The turn around is incredible. If people want to chose to ignore something amazing happening in front of their faces (or not their faces because they don't watch IND) because they google some stats......go ahead. I don't mind enjoying reality on my own.

[odiz]

A new coach who isn't there a new defensive scheme that half their roster doesn't fit and a new GM who from what I was told, had the 2nd worst roster to start the year.

Nothing in that list typically helps you win. The culture change, IMO, started with Andrew more than anything else.


I guess if we want pretend the NFL is the MLB and everything is equal we can keep using stats....Luck has been possibly the biggest x factor to anyone team this year. The turn around is incredible. If people want to chose to ignore something amazing happening in front of their faces (or not their faces because they don't watch IND) because they google some stats......go ahead. I don't mind enjoying reality on my own.

Something amazing happen? Like losing to the worst team in the NFL or getting trounced by the Jets? Wow you have really latched onto all the Luck hype.

Andrew Luck is going to be an elite quarterback, i have very few doubts about that. But when being measured on his performance in the NFL so far, against the very best QBs in the league, he isnt anywhere close. They have beaten 2 good teams all year and the bad teams they have beaten they just squeaked by. Looking at their schedule they might actually make the playoffs and finish with only one win over a .500 or better team. Luck has played an extremely weak schedule and still looked very mediocre a lot of the time. That doesnt sound like an MVP to me.

[NormSizedMidget]

Something amazing happen? Like losing to the worst team in the NFL or getting trounced by the Jets? Wow you have really latched onto all the Luck hype.
Clearly losing games makes all your other wins completely invalid. Love the logic kid.
Andrew Luck is going to be an elite quarterback, i have very few doubts about that. But when being measured on his performance in the NFL so far, against the very best QBs in the league, he isnt anywhere close. They have beaten 2 good teams all year and the bad teams they have beaten they just squeaked by. Looking at their schedule they might actually make the playoffs and finish with only one win over a .500 or better team. Luck has played an extremely weak schedule and still looked very mediocre a lot of the time. That doesnt sound like an MVP to me.

Again, you think it's the MOP. Until you and everyone else realize that it is not, nobody will ever understand my position.


There's more to value than having the best stats.

[More-Than-Most]

Again, you think it's the MOP. Until you and everyone else realize that it is not, nobody will ever understand my position.


There's more to value than having the best stats.

Nobody is disagreeing with that but when you look at the year he is having compared to the years P Manning/Rodgers are having do you honestly believe stats do not tell a big part of the story? Its not like they are statistically in the same universe because they arent...If they were I would agree with your point but its not close. Also if you give him credit for that then why isnt Freeman your far and away MVP? Or AP? Both guys teams were never expected to be close to contenders let alone one of the top nfc teams but they both are and both are statistically far and above better than Luck. If your going to use this argument for luck then How is freeman not the mvp?

[NormSizedMidget]

Nobody is disagreeing with that but when you look at the year he is having compared to the years P Manning/Rodgers are having do you honestly believe stats do not tell a big part of the story? Its not like they are statistically in the same universe because they arent...If they were I would agree with your point but its not close. Also if you give him credit for that then why isnt Freeman your far and away MVP? Or AP? Both guys teams were never expected to be close to contenders let alone one of the top nfc teams but they both are and both are statistically far and above better than Luck. If your going to use this argument for luck then How is freeman not the mvp?

Because I don't think TB will make the playoffs and you have to make the playoffs to be an MVP IMO, or far and away dominating as a non playoff team player.

I WOULD consider voting for Schiano for COTY regardless though. I'm a huge fan.

Was that supposed to stump me? lol

[More-Than-Most]

Because I don't think TB will make the playoffs and you have to make the playoffs to be an MVP IMO, or far and away dominating as a non playoff team player.

I WOULD consider voting for Schiano for COTY regardless though. I'm a huge fan.

So if both teams finish between 8-10 wins luck deserves MVP if his team makes the playoffs because he has the easier schedule or because the AFC might be top heavy with not a ton of great teams? We are also suppose to let go of the QBs performance as well? This is such a terrible argument

What if Tampa has a shot at the playoffs but their defense gives up 90 and they lose the final game of the season....Is that on freeman?

When determining value of an individual player statistical output over a 17 week season is far more telling than Wins/Losses because QBs can play bad and still win games and good teams could fall short of bad teams when you factor in strength of schedule/division/Dome/Weather and on down the list.

[NormSizedMidget]

So if both teams finish between 8-10 wins luck deserves MVP if his team makes the playoffs because he has the easier schedule or because the AFC might be top heavy with not a ton of great teams? We are also suppose to let go of the QBs performance as well? This is such a terrible argument
SOS is an argument for 11 year olds and college football.

His performance isn't bad. MLB fans see the stats and think it is. It's not.
What if Tampa has a shot at the playoffs but their defense gives up 90 and they lose the final game of the season....Is that on freeman?
You really think I should vote for Josh Freeman for MVP? He's hot garbage. Luck is good.
When determining value of an individual player statistical output over a 17 week season is far more telling than Wins/Losses because QBs can play bad and still win games and good teams could fall short of bad teams when you factor in strength of schedule/division/Dome/Weather and on down the list.

I'm telling you from watching Luck his teams wins have far more to do with him than Freeman's do.

[More-Than-Most]

I'm telling you from watching Luck his teams wins have far more to do with him than Freeman's do.

Lol is this trolling????

[NormSizedMidget]

Lol is this trolling????

I can't believe I found the Josh Freeman fan. I never thought I'd meet you.

And what I said is reality MTM.......but whatever.

[GoLions8190]

My vote is for Matt Ryan, with Peyton being a close 2nd

[cuttydoesit6]

charles