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View Poll Results: MVP thus far?

Voters
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  • Aaron Rodgers

    38 18.18%
  • Matt Ryan

    28 13.40%
  • Peyton Manning

    82 39.23%
  • Tom Brady

    50 23.92%
  • Andrew Luck

    9 4.31%
  • Ben Rothisberger

    2 0.96%
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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosox3431 View Post
    So one game that those three(gronk and olineman) missed, and against a pretty ****** colts defense anyway. And its not like thats the only weapon he has. Last I checked welker was pretty good. What about Lloyd we heard about how much of a genius bill was for getting.

    Oh, and you're not talking about past years, then why bring up peytons defenses of the past? Which directly what I was responding to anyway. Its because the bradys defense is bad so you wanted to throw that back at people. Which is what I did with the offensove cast each have. Yes, Peytons isnt horrible but its not near as good as bradys. Bradys running game is even better. But that apprentoy dont matter now.
    Brady does have a better running game but if you actually watch the Patriots games, you'd see they run against a lot of nickel and dime formations. Why is that the case? Because teams are still more worried about the Pats passing game than the running game. And unlike many other QBs, Brady is willing to run the ball if it means moving the chains and scoring.

    Quote Originally Posted by bosox3431 View Post
    Oh my bad, it was the jets last week. And in that game, 5 of those tds came either from the defense or off turnovers. One of the three that came off turnovers NE got the ball in the redzone.

    The colts game is the same. 2 pick 6, punt return for a td, a punt return of 49 giving brady the ball at the colts 39 and a luck fumble giving them the ball at the colts 24.

    Yes theyre scoring a lot of points, but lets not act like Its just brady out there doing it alone. Thats 5 tds in the last two games from the dfense and st and another three brady was givien excellent field position.
    The Pats still scored 35+ points on offense in the past 2 games so even with the defense/special teams scoring, they're still scoring on offense.

    And again, you completely ignore the advanced stats:
    http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB
    http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

    Sort by EPA or EPA per play and Brady has a pretty significant lead. He's also ahead in Football Outsiders' DVOA, which is adjusted for opponent. But of course, you keep ignoring that....

    Also, that Jets D ranked 8th against the pass according to DVOA. While there isn't a whole lot of talent in the front 7, they still have Cro at one CB and Rex's schemes have kept the defense afloat.

    Also, for what its worth, Brady has the higher passer rating now too. But I was making his case based on EPA and DVOA which are better anyways.
    Patriots Forum HOF Class of 2011

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Manning was blessed with the most highly paid offense in the AFC from 2000 thru at least 2009. Some years they led #2 by an absurd degree. He had not coaching change in his OC and HC for years as well.
    Whats the excuses for his success this year? No high paid offense, new cowch, new team, no dome and missed a whole season.

    Must suck for brady having all those head coaching changes over the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by PatsSoxKnicks View Post
    Brady does have a better running game but if you actually watch the Patriots games, you'd see they run against a lot of nickel and dime formations. Why is that the case? Because teams are still more worried about the Pats passing game than the running game. And unlike many other QBs, Brady is willing to run the ball if it means moving the chains and scoring.



    The Pats still scored 35+ points on offense in the past 2 games so even with the defense/special teams scoring, they're still scoring on offense.

    And again, you completely ignore the advanced stats:
    http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB
    http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

    Sort by EPA or EPA per play and Brady has a pretty significant lead. He's also ahead in Football Outsiders' DVOA, which is adjusted for opponent. But of course, you keep ignoring that....

    Also, that Jets D ranked 8th against the pass according to DVOA. While there isn't a whole lot of talent in the front 7, they still have Cro at one CB and Rex's schemes have kept the defense afloat.

    Also, for what its worth, Brady has the higher passer rating now too. But I was making his case based on EPA and DVOA which are better anyways.
    And you ignored the whole point of my post you quoted the first time. You know, the one I didnt mention anything about the mvp award in. Instead you addressed it with gronk missing the one game along with a couple lineman.

    I havent made a comment about peyton being mvp in a couple weeks I do believe, the last time I did, I believe peyton was leading in epa too.

    As like I said, the offense has been scoring. Theyve had a lot of help from the defense and special teams just outside of simply scoring. Such as the three instances I mentioned regarding field position.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosox3431 View Post
    And you ignored the whole point of my post you quoted the first time. You know, the one I didnt mention anything about the mvp award in. Instead you addressed it with gronk missing the one game along with a couple lineman.

    I havent made a comment about peyton being mvp in a couple weeks I do believe, the last time I did, I believe peyton was leading in epa too.

    As like I said, the offense has been scoring. Theyve had a lot of help from the defense and special teams just outside of simply scoring. Such as the three instances I mentioned regarding field position.
    My posts have been towards the point of saying Brady should be in the lead for MVP right now. I'm not sure how he'll finish with great defenses like Houston and SF on the schedule, but FO takes that into account with DVOA.

    And EPA takes into account field position...Thats the primary driving force behind the stat.

    And I'm not just talking about the last 2 weeks obviously, the Pats have been operating at a high level on offense for the whole year. The last 2 weeks obviously they've gotten defensive/special teams scores, which is why they were scoring 50. And again, Brady does lead the league in EPA and EPA per play and DVOA. Based on that, I'd say he should be in the lead for MVP. We'll see how that changes in the next few weeks.
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  4. #229
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    Sooo...

    1. Brady
    2. Manning
    3. Rodgers

    I'm guessing most would agree. I'm not sure what Rodgers would have to do to win it at this point since numbers wise he's right with Peyton.
    Where Pick n Roll...Pick and Roll...Pick and Roll...Rebound Happens

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Mago50 View Post
    Sooo...

    1. Brady
    2. Manning
    3. Rodgers

    I'm guessing most would agree. I'm not sure what Rodgers would have to do to win it at this point since numbers wise he's right with Peyton.
    He shouldn't have to do anything if people watched tonight's game... The packers without Rodgers are a 4 win team at best.

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  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    He shouldn't have to do anything if people watched tonight's game... The packers without Rodgers are a 4 win team at best.
    I do agree that he's had to deal with missing his best players on defense, a terrible o-line and missing Jennings and Nelson for long stretches of time. I'm just not sure the ones who decide will put enough weight on what he's doing, it's not that he's having an off year it's that more passes are being dropped and protection is worse then ever.
    Where Pick n Roll...Pick and Roll...Pick and Roll...Rebound Happens

  7. #232
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    Brady: 65.1 Cmp% | 3299 Yds | 24 TD | 3 INT | 8.7 AY/A | 105 Rate
    81.6 QBR | 1369 DYAR | 39.5% DVOA

    Manning: 67.7 Cmp% | 3260 Yds | 26 TD | 8 INT | 8.5 AY/A | 104.8 Rate
    80.6 QBR | 1114 DYAR |31.4% DVOA



    Brady has a small advantage in the counting stats and a large advantage in the more advanced ones (DYAR/DVOA). Still lots of season to go against very tough defenses (San Fran/Houston) but at this point the best QB in football is Tom Brady.


    I think, however, that if the stats are like this at the end of the year Manning will win because:

    1.) Took over a young Broncos team
    2.) Great story coming back from surgery
    3.) He's Peyton Manning
    Lester to the Cubs??


  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by xnick5757 View Post
    Brady: 65.1 Cmp% | 3299 Yds | 24 TD | 3 INT | 8.7 AY/A | 105 Rate
    81.6 QBR | 1369 DYAR | 39.5% DVOA

    Manning: 67.7 Cmp% | 3260 Yds | 26 TD | 8 INT | 8.5 AY/A | 104.8 Rate
    80.6 QBR | 1114 DYAR |31.4% DVOA



    Brady has a small advantage in the counting stats and a large advantage in the more advanced ones (DYAR/DVOA). Still lots of season to go against very tough defenses (San Fran/Houston) but at this point the best QB in football is Tom Brady.


    I think, however, that if the stats are like this at the end of the year Manning will win because:

    1.) Took over a young Broncos team
    2.) Great story coming back from surgery
    3.) He's Peyton Manning
    Completely agree. Brady is playing great too but Peyton's story is one the media loves. After the first few weeks of the season, you knew Peyton was back.
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  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosox3431 View Post
    Whats the excuses for his success this year? No high paid offense, new cowch, new team, no dome and missed a whole season.
    Why would I need an excuse? My first point was that much of Mannings advantages over Brady pre 2007 were due to factors outside of just Brady v Manning.

    Since the end of the 2006 season go ahead and line up each full season of both QB's in a high -> low hierarchy. Brady easily beats Manning. What's Mannings excuse for that? Brady has a better team? Not true in the earlier years. Sucks that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Sucks for Manning fans on paper Brady is better and god knows in the playoffs and per personal conduct Manning is a ***** by comparison to Brady.

    Must suck for brady having all those head coaching changes over the years.
    His QB and OC changes have dwarfed Mannings.

    For the record QB Rating in order by each since end of 2006:

    Brady:

    2007: 117.2 - 2012: 104.8
    2010: 111.0 - 2009: 099.9
    2011: 105.6 - 2007: 098.0
    2012: 105.0 - 2008: 095.0
    2009: 096.2 - 2010: 091.9

    In fact, nobody in the history of the NFL has put together a better 5 year run than Brady per QB Rating. Better than any 5 year period of Mannings.

    What's your excuse? Brady's knee was cooked in 2008, he's far less mobile, has his shoulder scoped out a few times every year - that's pretty serious - like Mannings neck - yet his brilliance since then throws Manning into the shadows.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 11-26-2012 at 03:19 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  10. #235
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    Clearly Manning
    @paulpierce34 I told Wade I will **** his mom like how my man D. West did his mans. Thats why I got ejected
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  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by JiffyMix88 View Post
    Clearly Manning
    For TV pundits and Bronco and Manning fans perhaps, but Brady is starting to pull away, as he has for every full year since 2006 v Manning.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    For TV pundits and Bronco and Manning fans perhaps, but Brady is starting to pull away, as he has for every full year since 2006 v Manning.
    Ok I'm neither of those I'm a Bears fan.... Brady isn't pulling away from anyone I've seen two weeks in a row hes stayed on the field stat padding when the game was well out of hand. Manning has been dominating, the difference between them is Brady is part of a system and scheme BB puts together every week, Manning is the SYSTEM and has shown that this year
    @paulpierce34 I told Wade I will **** his mom like how my man D. West did his mans. Thats why I got ejected
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  13. #238
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    I gotta go with Manning...

    He has played well enough and thats pretty impressive considering the injury he is coming back from.


    Take me back to the Forest

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by JiffyMix88 View Post
    Ok I'm neither of those I'm a Bears fan.... Brady isn't pulling away from anyone I've seen two weeks in a row hes stayed on the field stat padding when the game was well out of hand. Manning has been dominating, the difference between them is Brady is part of a system and scheme BB puts together every week, Manning is the SYSTEM and has shown that this year

  15. #240
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    Its between Peyton and Brady.

    Brady has been the best overall player this year IMO. The Patriots lead the league in points scored by a rather large margin. That really says it all.

    Peyton has overcome so much though and has transformed his team in a way that I am not sure anyone else could.

    Its tough to say.
    DUDA


    Quote Originally Posted by VendettaRed07 View Post
    noah is gonna be a beast man.

    with him and harvey, its like were gonna have Goku and Vegetta in the same rotation

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