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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post
    You could say because they already had what most experts called the best team in the NL, that most writers picked to go to the WS in '07. But they still brought in Moises Alou during the off season, who just hit .341 in '07. And they let Bradford go because they didn't want to give a reliever a 3 year contract. The bull pen was supposed to be one of their strengths.

    In '06 at the deadline, they traded for Shawn Green in an effort to strengthen an already strong team. But I guess you'll find a reason to pooh-pooh that too.
    Lets not forget to that we didn't have the farm system, especially after the Santana trade, to bring in someone at the deadline that would REALLY put us over the top.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post
    You could say because they already had what most experts called the best team in the NL, that most writers picked to go to the WS in '07. But they still brought in Moises Alou during the off season, who just hit .341 in '07. And they let Bradford go because they didn't want to give a reliever a 3 year contract. The bull pen was supposed to be one of their strengths.

    In '06 at the deadline, they traded for Shawn Green in an effort to strengthen an already strong team. But I guess you'll find a reason to pooh-pooh that too.


    Moises Alou? whoopty doo, a million years old and could never stay healthy.

    They let Bradford go because they didn't want to give a 3 year contract? then why did they hand a 3 year contract to Scotty shoewenblow?

    Yes I would poo poo signing washed up Mr. Shawn Green. Jesus Christ, that was the best we could do? like he was taking us anywhere.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Moises Alou? whoopty doo, a million years old and could never stay healthy.

    They let Bradford go because they didn't want to give a 3 year contract? then why did they hand a 3 year contract to Scotty shoewenblow?

    Yes I would poo poo signing washed up Mr. Shawn Green. Jesus Christ, that was the best we could do? like he was taking us anywhere.
    That Omar made ill advised moves doesn't underscore the fact that they were trying to win.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    That Omar made ill advised moves doesn't underscore the fact that they were trying to win.


    Completely failing at every deadline is not on Omar. Because they've failed at countless deadlines under many GM's.

    Why didn't they improve the team after '06 when we were so close?

    Why didn't they improve the team at the deadline in '07 or '08?

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    That Omar made ill advised moves doesn't underscore the fact that they were trying to win.
    I think the Wilpons were serious about competing in the years between launching SNY and opening Citi Field. It was in their best interest. In their minds spending the extra money to build a champion probably wasn't worth the extra money it would cost. If they'd been serious about building a champion in the long term they wouldn't have cut corners in so many areas, especially the draft.

    I don't agree with their perspective but I understand it. Spending on the draft wouldn't have given immediate results. Any impact would have happened after the new ballpark opened. Given the way they structured contracts like Bonilla's they evidently preferred investing in Madoff than in prospects.

    It's also an old saying in baseball that a competitive team that doesn't win it all is more profitable. Salaries are lower but attendance and ratings are the same up until the season's end.

    The overall pattern of spending indicates they'll spend when it think it'll be worth their while. All things being equal they'd rather win than lose but their main interest is making money. This is why they often didn't spend to fill holes as best they could. It's also why the Mets haven't won it all since Wilpon took over.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    I think the Wilpons were serious about competing in the years between launching SNY and opening Citi Field. It was in their best interest. In their minds spending the extra money to build a champion probably wasn't worth the extra money it would cost. If they'd been serious about building a champion in the long term they wouldn't have cut corners in so many areas, especially the draft.

    I don't agree with their perspective but I understand it. Spending on the draft wouldn't have given immediate results. Any impact would have happened after the new ballpark opened. Given the way they structured contracts like Bonilla's they evidently preferred investing in Madoff than in prospects.

    It's also an old saying in baseball that a competitive team that doesn't win it all is more profitable. Salaries are lower but attendance and ratings are the same up until the season's end.

    The overall pattern of spending indicates they'll spend when it think it'll be worth their while. All things being equal they'd rather win than lose but their main interest is making money. This is why they often didn't spend to fill holes as best they could. It's also why the Mets haven't won it all since Wilpon took over.
    Nice post.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    I think the Wilpons were serious about competing in the years between launching SNY and opening Citi Field. It was in their best interest. In their minds spending the extra money to build a champion probably wasn't worth the extra money it would cost. If they'd been serious about building a champion in the long term they wouldn't have cut corners in so many areas, especially the draft.

    I don't agree with their perspective but I understand it. Spending on the draft wouldn't have given immediate results. Any impact would have happened after the new ballpark opened. Given the way they structured contracts like Bonilla's they evidently preferred investing in Madoff than in prospects.

    It's also an old saying in baseball that a competitive team that doesn't win it all is more profitable. Salaries are lower but attendance and ratings are the same up until the season's end.

    The overall pattern of spending indicates they'll spend when it think it'll be worth their while. All things being equal they'd rather win than lose but their main interest is making money. This is why they often didn't spend to fill holes as best they could. It's also why the Mets haven't won it all since Wilpon took over.
    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Nice post.
    Seconded.

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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Completely failing at every deadline is not on Omar. Because they've failed at countless deadlines under many GM's.

    Why didn't they improve the team after '06 when we were so close?

    Why didn't they improve the team at the deadline in '07 or '08?
    1. They did try to improve. However Omar missed out on Dice K and Zito. Our bull pen was a major problem and for what ever reason Omar thought it was OK to trade away Heath Bell, Royce Ring, Henry Owens, and Matt Lindstrom all in the same off season for a bag of peanuts. BTW if you are wondering we bid 39 million dollars just to speak to Dice K. I believe we offered a lot to Barry Zito as well.

    2. In 2007 and 2008 what did you want us to do? In 2006 we traded 4 players for Carlos Delgado. In 2007 we traded 4 minor league pitchers/specs in the off season. In 2008 we traded 4 more prospects for Johan Santana. That is 12 minor league prospects in 3 years just emptied out of our system. Who the hell outside of August waiver deals were we actually going to bring in to make a big impact at the deadline?

    Our farm system was in shambles.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by metsbulls1025 View Post
    1. They did try to improve. However Omar missed out on Dice K and Zito. Our bull pen was a major problem and for what ever reason Omar thought it was OK to trade away Heath Bell, Royce Ring, Henry Owens, and Matt Lindstrom all in the same off season for a bag of peanuts. BTW if you are wondering we bid 39 million dollars just to speak to Dice K. I believe we offered a lot to Barry Zito as well.

    2. In 2007 and 2008 what did you want us to do? In 2006 we traded 4 players for Carlos Delgado. In 2007 we traded 4 minor league pitchers/specs in the off season. In 2008 we traded 4 more prospects for Johan Santana. That is 12 minor league prospects in 3 years just emptied out of our system. Who the hell outside of August waiver deals were we actually going to bring in to make a big impact at the deadline?

    Our farm system was in shambles.
    See Coupon's post. The reason our farm system was in shambles is because there was no depth at all due to the fact we didn't invest in the draft and go after high ceiling talent.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 11-22-2012 at 07:38 AM.

  10. #85
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    It wouldn't have mattered after 2006. You can't trade 12 guys from your minor leagues and have much value left regardless of how you draft.

    I also could care less about some conspiracy theory of why we spent money. We had high payrolls before Citi and SNY were even thought about.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    I think the Wilpons were serious about competing in the years between launching SNY and opening Citi Field. It was in their best interest. In their minds spending the extra money to build a champion probably wasn't worth the extra money it would cost. If they'd been serious about building a champion in the long term they wouldn't have cut corners in so many areas, especially the draft.

    I don't agree with their perspective but I understand it. Spending on the draft wouldn't have given immediate results. Any impact would have happened after the new ballpark opened. Given the way they structured contracts like Bonilla's they evidently preferred investing in Madoff than in prospects.

    It's also an old saying in baseball that a competitive team that doesn't win it all is more profitable. Salaries are lower but attendance and ratings are the same up until the season's end.

    The overall pattern of spending indicates they'll spend when it think it'll be worth their while. All things being equal they'd rather win than lose but their main interest is making money. This is why they often didn't spend to fill holes as best they could. It's also why the Mets haven't won it all since Wilpon took over.

    Exactly.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by metsbulls1025 View Post
    1. They did try to improve. However Omar missed out on Dice K and Zito. Our bull pen was a major problem and for what ever reason Omar thought it was OK to trade away Heath Bell, Royce Ring, Henry Owens, and Matt Lindstrom all in the same off season for a bag of peanuts. BTW if you are wondering we bid 39 million dollars just to speak to Dice K. I believe we offered a lot to Barry Zito as well.

    2. In 2007 and 2008 what did you want us to do? In 2006 we traded 4 players for Carlos Delgado. In 2007 we traded 4 minor league pitchers/specs in the off season. In 2008 we traded 4 more prospects for Johan Santana. That is 12 minor league prospects in 3 years just emptied out of our system. Who the hell outside of August waiver deals were we actually going to bring in to make a big impact at the deadline?

    Our farm system was in shambles.

    I don't care why they failed to improve they failed to improve, especially at the deadline for years and years and years and years and years, this goes back to when they took over and didn't even want Mike. Teams can pick up talent at the deadline for cash not prospects, see Billy Wagner...

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    See Coupon's post. The reason our farm system was in shambles is because there was no depth at all due to the fact we didn't invest in the draft and go after high ceiling talent.

    They ere in the bottom 5 in draft spend for a decade...

    All they cared about was short term tix sales, which is all they care about now.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by metsbulls1025 View Post
    It wouldn't have mattered after 2006. You can't trade 12 guys from your minor leagues and have much value left regardless of how you draft.

    I also could care less about some conspiracy theory of why we spent money. We had high payrolls before Citi and SNY were even thought about.
    Absolutely wrong. A deep farm system can still withstand dealing away that many players. And lets not act like those 12 players were some great prospects or anything.

    We definitely spent money, but we never spent enough to put us over the top.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Absolutely wrong. A deep farm system can still withstand dealing away that many players. And lets not act like those 12 players were some great prospects or anything.

    We definitely spent money, but we never spent enough to put us over the top.
    Absolutely wrong? Didn't the Phillies spend and have great farm systems? How do they look now after all their trades?

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