MNF: Kansas City Chiefs Vs. Pittsburgh Steelers

[DBR96A]

And writers in Jacksonville rave about Gabbert's improvement.

I'd hope so, because Blaine Gabbert has a lot more to improve than Ben Roethlisberger ever did.

I have eyes. I don't need writers to tell me what to think.

I have eyes too, and that sportswriter simply reaffirmed what my eyes have told me.

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I'd hope so, because Blaine Gabbert has a lot more to improve than Ben Roethlisberger ever did.




I have eyes too, and that sportswriter simply reaffirmed what my eyes have told me.

I've never denied he hasn't improved. You guys just attached that to me. He's still not as efficient or effective as the "Big 3/4" in terms of read progression passing.

At least not Peyton/Tom/Brees. Maybe Rodgers. He's not the greatest progression passer.

You and ring keep telling me my rankings are wrong. I have him 5, maybe 6. I said nothing else in the recent past. I haven't seen anyone else say much either.

[ring91013144043]

I've never denied he hasn't improved. You guys just attached that to me. He's still not as efficient or effective as the "Big 3/4" in terms of read progression passing.

At least not Peyton/Tom/Brees. Maybe Rodgers. He's not the greatest progression passer.

You and ring keep telling me my rankings are wrong. I have him 5, maybe 6. I said nothing else in the recent past. I haven't seen anyone else say much either.

I only said that once and when you pointed it out, admitted my mistake and said "rate" is a better term. Because none of us Steelers fan compared his reading and decision making to that of the Big Four, we just responded to you saying "he's not a timing QB."

[DBR96A]

I only said that once and when you pointed it out, admitted my mistake and said "rate" is a better term. Because none of us Steelers fan compared his reading and decision making to that of the Big Four, we just responded to you saying "he's not a timing QB."

A lot of people forget just how raw Roethlisberger was coming out of college. He'd only played QB for four years of his life prior to being drafted (his senior year of high school plus three years of college). He was bound to have a longer learning curve simply because he still hadn't mastered all the nuances of the position by the time he got to the NFL. He wasn't in the position of, say, Andrew Luck, who's played QB since his Pop Warner days, and pretty much mastered the position by the time he was a senior in college. But he had tremendous upside nonetheless, which is why he was a first-round draft pick in the first place. He was basically in the same situation coming out of college that Tony Romo was, except he ended up in a good learning environment, unlike Romo.

This is why Bill Cowher and Ken Whisenhunt started him off slowly, limiting his pass attempts. The good news was that they taught him well in the three seasons they had with him. Unfortunately, Bruce Arians became the offensive coordinator and told Roethlisberger that he didn't need to change anything about his playing style, even though it was obvious that he needed to be coached out of holding the ball too long. Of course, part of the reason why he held the ball so long is because most of Arians' plays took (and still take) forever to develop, and he had very few checkdowns to boot, so the ball was held a long time by design. In short, Arians basically arrested Roethlisberger's development, which is why most Steeler fans thank God for Todd Haley, who has already had an obvious, positive impact on his playing style.

Not every QB has a career trajectory resembling a bell curve. John Elway stagnated in the middle of his career. Drew Brees was never considered "elite" until he turned 30. Rich Gannon got better with age, making his first Pro Bowl appearance when he was 34, and leading the Raiders to Super Bowl XXXVII when he was 37. Like all of them, Roethlisberger is going to be a better QB in his 30's than he was in his 20's. Furthermore, it was gurus of offense who brought out the best in each of those other QBs. Mike Shanahan coached up Elway; Jon Gruden coached up Gannon, and Sean Payton coached up Brees. Now, Todd Haley has begun to coach up Roethlisberger.

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A lot of people forget just how raw Roethlisberger was coming out of college. He'd only played QB for four years of his life prior to being drafted (his senior year of high school plus three years of college). He was bound to have a longer learning curve simply because he still hadn't mastered all the nuances of the position by the time he got to the NFL. He wasn't in the position of, say, Andrew Luck, who's played QB since his Pop Warner days, and pretty much mastered the position by the time he was a senior in college. But he had tremendous upside nonetheless, which is why he was a first-round draft pick in the first place. He was basically in the same situation coming out of college that Tony Romo was, except he ended up in a good learning environment, unlike Romo.

This is why Bill Cowher and Ken Whisenhunt started him off slowly, limiting his pass attempts. The good news was that they taught him well in the three seasons they had with him. Unfortunately, Bruce Arians became the offensive coordinator and told Roethlisberger that he didn't need to change anything about his playing style, even though it was obvious that he needed to be coached out of holding the ball too long. Of course, part of the reason why he held the ball so long is because most of Arians' plays took (and still take) forever to develop, and he had very few checkdowns to boot, so the ball was held a long time by design. In short, Arians basically arrested Roethlisberger's development, which is why most Steeler fans thank God for Todd Haley, who has already had an obvious, positive impact on his playing style.

Not every QB has a career trajectory resembling a bell curve. John Elway stagnated in the middle of his career. Drew Brees was never considered "elite" until he turned 30. Rich Gannon got better with age, making his first Pro Bowl appearance when he was 34, and leading the Raiders to Super Bowl XXXVII when he was 37. Like all of them, Roethlisberger is going to be a better QB in his 30's than he was in his 20's. Furthermore, it was gurus of offense who brought out the best in each of those other QBs. Mike Shanahan coached up Elway; Jon Gruden coached up Gannon, and Sean Payton coached up Brees. Now, Todd Haley has begun to coach up Roethlisberger.

You're nearing Alpha Dog territory.

[DBR96A]

You're nearing Alpha Dog territory.

Then please explain to me why he was considered the most raw of the QBs in the 2004 draft.

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Then please explain to me why he was considered the most raw of the QBs in the 2004 draft.

The entire draft?