Draft Thread

[stephkyle7]

oh.......ummm, well...now that you point out the obvious

[GREATNESS ONE]

Just one solid overall draft is what we need. One amazing off-season.

[Shred003]

Just one solid overall draft is what we need. One amazing off-season.

A really good draft and a few more "Wheeler" signings - starter, solid player, high motor, "thrifty" cap number - and the Raiders might get into the mix for the playoffs.

This team is still plagued with the blight of dumb mistakes at the worst possible time. It might take a few years to really eradicate that - hell, Dallas has been fighting that for years without success.

The culture isn't going to change overnight.

People point at the 49ers, but they forget that the 49ers were a team that fought their tails off for two years under Mike Singletary. Jim Harbaugh brought a new system into a functioning, albeit under-coached culture.

The Raiders have had a dysfunctional culture for YEARS. It's not going to get cleared up in one off-season, IMO - though they can be markedly improved after this season.

[stephkyle7]

Heres my 2 cents, and I know alot of people dont agree, but.

RM shouldnt have fired Hue.The offense was just getting better.there were plenty of options to get a DC.That was a huge mistake.

It wasnt his only one, and until SOMETHING he does pays off big, then Im not a RM supporter.
He had 1 success in FA
and 1 success in the draft.
and no success with his coaching hires.

[Snake Plissken]

Heres my 2 cents, and I know alot of people dont agree, but.

RM shouldnt have fired Hue.The offense was just getting better.there were plenty of options to get a DC.That was a huge mistake.

It wasnt his only one, and until SOMETHING he does pays off big, then Im not a RM supporter.
He had 1 success in FA
and 1 success in the draft.
and no success with his coaching hires.

You also need to look at it from McKenzie's perspective, and question whether he and Jackson could have worked together? Mark hired Reggie for a reason, and your are basing your opinion that McKenzie made a mistake on the premise that they were compatible.

I also wonder how effective Hue's offense would have been. He took far to many chances to be successful over the long term IMHO.

You could be right, but the fact that Jackson did not garner a single look as at least an OC elsewhere makes me question his credentials. He has in fact worked with some very credible coaches, his networking base should be vast, yet very few seem sing his accolades.

[corralski]

Heres my 2 cents, and I know alot of people dont agree, but.

RM shouldnt have fired Hue.The offense was just getting better.there were plenty of options to get a DC.That was a huge mistake.

It wasnt his only one, and until SOMETHING he does pays off big, then Im not a RM supporter.
He had 1 success in FA
and 1 success in the draft.
and no success with his coaching hires.

If Hue hadn't opened his yapper about who he was going to answer to he might have had a shot. Had you been in Reggie's shoes it would have been a no brainer for you as well....

[impressionz671]

A really good draft and a few more "Wheeler" signings - starter, solid player, high motor, "thrifty" cap number - and the Raiders might get into the mix for the playoffs.

This team is still plagued with the blight of dumb mistakes at the worst possible time. It might take a few years to really eradicate that - hell, Dallas has been fighting that for years without success.

The culture isn't going to change overnight.

People point at the 49ers, but they forget that the 49ers were a team that fought their tails off for two years under Mike Singletary. Jim Harbaugh brought a new system into a functioning, albeit under-coached culture.

The Raiders have had a dysfunctional culture for YEARS. It's not going to get cleared up in one off-season, IMO - though they can be markedly improved after this season.

and the niners draft picks have been panning out too

[raiderposting]

lets get a top 3 pick trade down to around the 6th range take teo. we can pick up a lot more picks. trade other players for picks and with a 3rd rounder take Ryan Nassib. With 2 offseasons build the dline and oline, then when the team is built nassib will be ready to take over. i dont want 4-5 years of palmer.

[Shred003]

and the niners draft picks have been panning out too

Good point, but I think it's a "50/50" situation.

50% of a players success is, IMO, work-ethic, desire, effort, energy, etc.

50% of a players success is coaching, organizational culture and, biggest of all, stability.

Example?

Imagine Tyvon Branch for a moment. He was drafted under Rob Ryan, taught how to play a position using Rob Ryan terminology, fundamentals, techniques and mind-set.

Then he was coached by John Marshall. He was taught how to play a position using John Marshall terminology, fundamentals, techniques and mind-set.

Then he was "coached" by Chuck Bresnahan. Hardy-har-har. He was 'taught' to play a position using Chuck Bresnahan 'terminology,' 'fundamentals,' and 'mind-set.'

Now he's coached by Jason Tarver. He's being taught how to play a position using Jason Tarver terminology, fundamentals, techniques and mind-set.

Example?

Now imagine Troy Polamalu. He was drafted in 2003. In '03, he was coached by Tim Lewis, then the defensive coordinator, who had taken over for Dick LeBeau. He was taught to play a position using Tim Lewis terminology, fundamentals, techniques and mind-set.

The "Lewis" system / scheme had been put in place by Dick LeBeau, and was retained under then head coach Bill Cowher. Since 2004, Troy Polamalu has been coached by Dick LeBeau; same terminology, same fundamentals, same techniques and same mind-set for 8 years.

I'm not saying Branch would be as good as Polamalu. I'm merely illustrating how ridiculous the circus in Oakland has been. Polamalu has been doing the same things the same way for 8 years -- his fundamentals are absolutely locked down, his understanding of the defense is ingrained in him.

Branch? Tyvon Branch has had to re-learn his position, techniques, fundamentals, terminology, etc nearly every year in his career. People wonder why some of these guys look lost out there, without considering how many times they've been taught and retaught how to do every little thing out there.

So, in summary, it comes down to the Raiders being able to draft good players... but it also comes down to the Raiders keeping the same stable, steady coaching to help these players develop.

[pablo2523]

100 percent agree...which is why I believe ppl need t have more patience with this coaching staff as they implement things

[stephkyle7]

I know you already redressed your comparison but Its important to note with more emphasis, Troy P. was a probowl talent by his soph. season @ SC.

The comparison is completely unfair.

[Shred003]

I know you already redressed your comparison but Its important to note with more emphasis, Troy P. was a probowl talent by his soph. season @ SC.

The comparison is completely unfair.

Apply the same concepts to Ryan Clark, then.

If Branch had consistent coaching, don't you think he could have been a far better player? I certainly do.

[SC_RAIDER]

I tell you what, I'm sitting here watchin the Florida vs Florida St game and I'm liking this DE from FSU Bjoern Werner


http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/werner_bjoern00.html

[impressionz671]

i was watching georgia earlier and i like bacarri rambo the fs him and tj mcdonald are on my wish list at fs if huff stays at corner

[fishedz]

I know you already redressed your comparison but Its important to note with more emphasis, Troy P. was a probowl talent by his soph. season @ SC.

The comparison is completely unfair.

True, but not with regard to their system. The system in PIT allows them the ability to replace top performers with mid level draft picks as they spend years in the system and become effective in their role and duties. Pit always produces excellent defenders and historically lets them walk, then replaces them with no names who become household names rather quickly. The key is consistency, continuity, and discipline. Sure they have off years, but they always bounce back and have more rings to show for it.


Pit is a great example of why I am not freaking out over the systems implemented by Reggie. In 2-3 years and solid drafts, we will have more contribution and depth from our mid tier players unlike now. Our team is like the 99%-1%. We have a few overpaid players not contributing, and a bunch of brokeasses sucking it up. Just looking at the cap numbers is astounding.