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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Emanski View Post
    I think it's unreasonable to be impatient about the current plan after just one season. As Cubs fans, we have watched for years while the Cubs try to do things the other way and it didn't work. That's funny that you would argue that others are too patient, after one season LOL
    People are willing to give this FO until 2015 and 2016 before they start winning. (Not all on PSD). I think that's being too patient.

  2. #77
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    its a reflection on society. both sides today want same goal... . ., ah screw it i hate republicans.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mell413 View Post
    I still don't think what I said was that unreasonable. I actually find Gato and Kyle's comments rather amusing and in fact I agree with what they say most of the time so more often than not I'm not going to quote them. Plus you're worth responding to so you can take that as a compliment. Maybe it's the years of being disrespected finally coming out combined with a waste of a 2012 season
    Ya but, calling one side smug and ignoring the ring leaders on the other is hilarious. The ones who hate this process or seem opposed are constantly sarcastic with their comments and witty shots at people who have a difference in opinion on the course of action.

    It's also getting annoying this treatment that one side doesn't want whats best or as if those of us that are being called "patient" don't want to see this team be good and win just as bad as the others. That is starting to get annoying to me as well.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZamboniCub View Post
    its a reflection on society. both sides today want same goal... . ., ah screw it i hate republicans.
    well looks like we have something in common...except in reverse

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Hey, it's fine, but it's also to the point where if you were on my side of "the plan" (if you want to call it that), you'd probably find my posts amusing and theirs condescending. Just a simple point I was making, is all. Which is fine, just something I wanted to point out.

    2012 sucked, but it's also not new. 2010 and 2011 were wastes from the start, we just pretended they werent.
    Probably not. I haven't really heard you say anything all that funny lol. Except when you said the Eagles were good at football

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mell413 View Post
    People are willing to give this FO until 2015 and 2016 before they start winning. (Not all on PSD). I think that's being too patient.
    They probably are being too patient.

    When it comes down to it, Ricketts wont let Theo or Hoyer wait that long. I honestly see 2014, and really, since the start of it, have thought 2014 was the realistic "coming out" party of the Cubs (though, had things broke properly - like Cespedes, for example, we could have been interesting in 2013).

    2014 the Cubs will have to be competitive. Ricketts wont lose that much cash. He's a business man first, and his bottom line needs to be good.
    #WhyNot?

    People ask me, "Why here? Why Kentucky?", I said "Why not"? It can be done here. It will be done here. Lay the foundation. Recruit and develop. Prepare to win. Day by day. Play by play. A new era of high performance. Why Kentucky? Why not? -Mark Stoops

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Hey, it's fine, but it's also to the point where if you were on my side of "the plan" (if you want to call it that), you'd probably find my posts amusing and theirs condescending. Just a simple point I was making, is all. Which is fine, just something I wanted to point out.

    2012 sucked, but it's also not new. 2010 and 2011 were wastes from the start, we just pretended they werent.
    I just really don't get how there have become such extreme sides and everyone is getting clumped into one.

    It's quite annoying cause I am considered a prospect hugger and money saver when that is not my premise or care at all. I want this team to have a large payroll, I want us to ****ing win games, I want sustained success. However to be treated as though I want this team to be ran like the Royals money wise is stupid.

    My point is imagine being the Tampa Bay Rays except having a Yankees payroll. To groom a constant flow of good players and being able to spend when we need to and acquire top talent in any offseason.

    I am never against spending but, cause I may not like the players mentioned or believe that they really aren't making this team any better then I shouldn't be clumped into one side.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mell413 View Post
    People are willing to give this FO until 2015 and 2016 before they start winning. (Not all on PSD). I think that's being too patient.
    I think it's being realistic.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by northsider View Post
    I just really don't get how there have become such extreme sides and everyone is getting clumped into one.

    It's quite annoying cause I am considered a prospect hugger and money saver when that is not my premise or care at all. I want this team to have a large payroll, I want us to ****ing win games, I want sustained success. However to be treated as though I want this team to be ran like the Royals money wise is stupid.

    My point is imagine being the Tampa Bay Rays except having a Yankees payroll. To groom a constant flow of good players and being able to spend when we need to and acquire top talent in any offseason.

    I am never against spending but, cause I may not like the players mentioned or believe that they really aren't making this team any better then I shouldn't be clumped into one side.
    I'm the same way but what ends up happening is simple: each side sensationalizes the other. If you are okay with waiting, of course you love you the prospects and want to take the word prospect and legally marry it. On the same end, if you want to sign BJ Upton, you now think you're the LA Dodgers and want to spend $20 when $10 will do.

    It's natural. Just as I don't want to butt**** the entire Kane County team, neither does Gato or Kyle or Mell want to sign 35 year old free agents to 8 year contracts. But when you're trying to make a point, it's a lot easier to make that point if you sensationalize the other half.
    #WhyNot?

    People ask me, "Why here? Why Kentucky?", I said "Why not"? It can be done here. It will be done here. Lay the foundation. Recruit and develop. Prepare to win. Day by day. Play by play. A new era of high performance. Why Kentucky? Why not? -Mark Stoops

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Emanski View Post
    Okay, so it will be two seasons, maybe even three. I've watch the Cubs go without a World Series since 1984 and there are people who have waited a lot longer than that. I am willing to try a different path, if it means that I get to see a World Series winner in my lifetime. My issue is how the CBA got changed right when the Cubs started down this path, making the path even more difficult.
    The thing is they tried this path already. Just 11 years ago this was the franchise giving Mark Prior 10 million dollars at the #2 overall pick. The team with Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, and Carlos Zambrano as three ace talents on the same roster, all in their early-mid 20's, will be 10 years old next year.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    The thing is they tried this path already. Just 11 years ago this was the franchise giving Mark Prior 10 million dollars at the #2 overall pick. The team with Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, and Carlos Zambrano as three ace talents on the same roster, all in their early-mid 20's, will be 10 years old next year.
    Well I know we didn't win anything but, take away the heart break of freak accidents and this team was on the right track. We were an out a way from our 1st WS.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    The thing is they tried this path already. Just 11 years ago this was the franchise giving Mark Prior 10 million dollars at the #2 overall pick. The team with Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, and Carlos Zambrano as three ace talents on the same roster, all in their early-mid 20's, will be 10 years old next year.
    And there was a lot of pretty bad luck there, in play, too. Had we not had the bad luck.....we'd be sitting here with, probably, a W.S. While those kinds of things happen, it doesn't usually happen to all 3 of them. Prior got run over, and hit by a line drive on top of a few arm issues (I still think his dislocated shoulder is what killed him). Wood had multiple arm issues. And Zambrano went from TORP to a 5th starter by his early 30's. Just...bad luck. Not even prospect attrition as all 3 of them made is as MLB players. That's MLB attrition. And unexpected MLB attrition at that.
    #WhyNot?

    People ask me, "Why here? Why Kentucky?", I said "Why not"? It can be done here. It will be done here. Lay the foundation. Recruit and develop. Prepare to win. Day by day. Play by play. A new era of high performance. Why Kentucky? Why not? -Mark Stoops

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    And there was a lot of pretty bad luck there, in play, too. Had we not had the bad luck.....we'd be sitting here with, probably, a W.S. While those kinds of things happen, it doesn't usually happen to all 3 of them. Prior got run over, and hit by a line drive on top of a few arm issues (I still think his dislocated shoulder is what killed him). Wood had multiple arm issues. And Zambrano went from TORP to a 5th starter by his early 30's. Just...bad luck. Not even prospect attrition as all 3 of them made is as MLB players. That's MLB attrition. And unexpected MLB attrition at that.
    Not to menton our back end guy was Clement who was a great 4th option in the rotation. Then added losing Corey Patterson who was looking to be a our staple in CF for years to come and a monster in his own right. Just allot of **** luck but, that team very well if anything is a proving point of what a path like this can lead too when you can produce soo much through your own system and have money to run with any big dog team out there.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    And there was a lot of pretty bad luck there, in play, too. Had we not had the bad luck.....we'd be sitting here with, probably, a W.S. While those kinds of things happen, it doesn't usually happen to all 3 of them. Prior got run over, and hit by a line drive on top of a few arm issues (I still think his dislocated shoulder is what killed him). Wood had multiple arm issues. And Zambrano went from TORP to a 5th starter by his early 30's. Just...bad luck. Not even prospect attrition as all 3 of them made is as MLB players. That's MLB attrition. And unexpected MLB attrition at that.
    Exactly. That 2004 team was perfectly constructed and the path that Theo and company are trying to get us back to. Two all stars nabbed through depth of the farm system, Lee and Ramirez. The homegrown kid from the farm system, Patterson. The all star acquisition midway through the season and once again via the farm system, Garciaparra. Plug in the holes via free agency, Walker and Barret. And of course a couple of well spent big contracts to Sosa and Alou, whom Upton doesn't hold a candle to. Throw in the rotation all provided internally sans a Maddux signing, once again a worth it contract, and that folks is how you do it. It's to bad, as you said, luck killed it because that core should have won a couple of world series. The only difference this time around is I think the pitching staff will be almost solely built on trades and free agency while the positional players will be made up of more of our internal guys, Baez, Soler, and Almora.

    By the way that 2004 team was basically built over a span of three years. Once of which included a 95 loss season. Shocking, I know.
    Last edited by Muhammad73; 11-12-2012 at 09:06 PM.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    The thing is they tried this path already. Just 11 years ago this was the franchise giving Mark Prior 10 million dollars at the #2 overall pick. The team with Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, and Carlos Zambrano as three ace talents on the same roster, all in their early-mid 20's, will be 10 years old next year.
    They have never invested heavily is the farm system, at least not consistently year in and year out. Those three young aces helped the Cubs have some of their best seasons ever. It's a shame there weren't a couple more young studs to go along with them and they might have won a World Series.

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