First Posted in March of 2011

[RickyPrior]

You realize there was a time Jrue was putting up similar assist totals in year 3 under Collins.

Sure. And we were disappointed. So?

But trust me, playing for Collins has a lot to do with it. I watched Jrue fill the bucket in big situations in the preseason and early last season. He then became 3rd banana to Lou and Iggy, and also had to play off Hawes in the high post a ton.

Because he couldn't be trusted with the ball. (How's he doing with that this year without Iggy and Lou?)

Regardless: Ironic that you blame Collins for Jrue's limitations...yet he's shown great improvement. But in Evan's case...what?...Collins continues to limit him?

I'm losing track of who Collins limits and whom he doesn't.

It's year 3 for ET now, so you do the math. ET's numbers will improve.

I did. He's been a 0.

Well, no ****, his numbers will improve. How could they NOT? And so far I'm the only one to hit the nail on the head with respect to his PPG stats.

Better if you just acknowledged that and moved on.

And where are the people who predicted an 18 PPG average for ET? (That still cracks me up!)

[wannabGM]

Jrich turns it over less....but he's an off the ball shoot first, pass 2nd role player....so that's to be expected.

And Jrich hasn't averaged 3+ assists in many years....whereas ET's assist numbers are likely to continue to rise as his career goes on.

So I don't think those points you made comparing ET to JRich were valid.

Collins limited the stats/roles of both Jrue and ET. I don't understand how that isn't clear. In part, probably to save his own *** by keeping his vets more happy. Jrue is in his 4th year (1 year more than ET), has a higher ceiling, and the contract extension....of course it's his offense now. ET is not getting plays called for him to score in this offense the way the other players on this team are. Collins has you fooled. He does some of these things for a reason. It's not always just about the young guys earning their stripes. It's sometimes about contracts and saving his own ***.

You keep harping on Jrue's turnovers, but you do realize he's also averaging 9.5 assists, right? and 18.5 points? He's going to end the season with a > 2:1 ratio....which isn't stellar for a point. But this is his first season having near complete free reign with the ball....and last I checked he is a human. Seeing what Jrue is doing now, if you can't admit he should have had a bigger role last season, then it's hopeless.

[RickyPrior]

Jrich turns it over less....but he's an off the ball shoot first, pass 2nd role player....so that's to be expected.

And Jrich hasn't averaged 3+ assists in many years....whereas ET's assist numbers are likely to continue to rise as his career goes on.

So I don't think those points you made comparing ET to JRich were valid.

Hahaha

So, let's see, JRich - you are guessing - won't average 3 assists....and - you are guessing - that ET will. And so MY comparison isn't valid.

Because YOU decided that one might get better and the other can't.

What the **** kind of arguing is THAT?

[BChydro86]

Ricky, ure getting obnoxious.

Turner is doing all the things u asked of him, hes playing well over a stretch the sixers have won 3 in a row.... Whats there to complain about?

[RickyPrior]

I'm not complaining. He's playing the way I predicted he would. And he's NOT playing the way everyone else predicted he would.

But whatever. You guys will continue to revise your own expectations and overreact to his every above-average game.

But I do love how Doug Collins...who took a team with no talent to within ONE GAME of the ECF...who this year has the team at 4-2 (with the majority of the games played on the road)...missing our 'franchise player'...and with most all the guys being new...sucks ONLY when it comes to the handling of Evan Turner.

THAT is funny.

Let's ignore that ET's played more minutes than just about any other player last year and this...Doug Collins is to blame for ET's being no better than an average NBA player!!

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[wannabGM]

Hahaha

So, let's see, JRich - you are guessing - won't average 3 assists....and - you are guessing - that ET will. And so MY comparison isn't valid.

Because YOU decided that one might get better and the other can't.

What the **** kind of arguing is THAT?

Ok, will this help you?

ET is averaging 3.3 assists and is the 2nd leading ball handler on the team....also playing the 2nd most amount of PG.

JRich only has 1 assist in 38 minutes and mostly is a shoot first off the ball player.

If JRich averages more assists than Turner this season (barring multiple freak injuries) then I will eat my shoe. Even worse, i'll eat your shoe.

[RickyPrior]

So. Your sample size is 38 minutes.

You win. That is overwhelming evidence, counselor.

[BChydro86]

So ET has played a lot of minutes on a 4-2 team..... Whos only losses come to the undefeated knicks....

What the hell are u still complaining about? Obviously ET is relevent to the sixers winning these games.... U said it urself, hes playing more minutes than just about anybody!

[RickyPrior]

His production, during those minutes, at both ends of the floor, is completely and utterly...ho hum.

It's fine. He's ok.

That seems to thrill you. I expected more for his third year when we drafted him.


You are satisfied with mediocrity. I am not.

Let's agree to disagree.

[wannabGM]

Collins has done some good things with his handling of ET...it hasn't been all bad. But yeah, Collins has ****ed it up a lot for ET. And no, that isn't the only bad thing Collins does. Do you read this forum? You didn't see that thread that read like a thesis about the Sixers half court offense and ET in it? You didn't read how the entire Sixers team last season was historic in how they didn't get to the line? You didn't read my posts (and those of several posters) last season about how Lou was playing too big of a role in the half court offense and in crunch time.

Not every criticism of Collins is to protect ET's fragile emotional state or paint Collins as the biggest ET hater in the universe. But it's pretty obvious Collins deserves some criticism at this point. He's a good coach, but he's not one of the game's best. Or else the Sixers' crunch time defense last year wouldn't have been so pathetic.....and their crunch time offense would have likely been better too.

[wannabGM]

So. Your sample size is 38 minutes.

You win. That is overwhelming evidence, counselor.

You kind of ignored the 6 games ET has played this year, and the past I dunno 6 years or more than JRich has played in the NBA.

Edit: and by the way, I haven't been downgrading my ET expectations. Some were expecting too much from him. I was not in that company. So if I am the one arguing with you about ET, that should be a strong hint that you have flown off the coo-coo nest on this issue.

[RickyPrior]

So the **** posted here matters?

Oh really?

Collins used our tools last year (good defense which lead to good transition...which leads to fewer FT attempts...) to the best advantage. This year, we don't have the horses...and so he's putting guys in positions of appropriate strength.

I just find it so funny (in a pathetic way) that the excuses for ET have run the gamut. I can't even bring myself to list them all. Dozens. Hell, I think Evan himself reads that **** and laughs at you.

The Excuse of the Month is now Collins. Yet no one can explain how OTHER PLAYERS have flourished under him. Or how, when Evan has a rare good game, Collins is responsible for THAT too.

It's ONLY Evan that Collins limits! Hahahahahaha

DAMN YOU COLLINS!!


UNLEASH EVAN!!!!!!!

[wannabGM]

So the **** posted here matters?

Oh really?

Collins used our tools last year (good defense which lead to good transition...which leads to fewer FT attempts...) to the best advantage. This year, we don't have the horses...and so he's putting guys in positions of appropriate strength.

I just find it so funny (in a pathetic way) that the excuses for ET have run the gamut. I can't even bring myself to list them all. Dozens. Hell, I think Evan himself reads that **** and laughs at you.

The Excuse of the Month is now Collins. Yet no one can explain how OTHER PLAYERS have flourished under him. Or how, when Evan has a rare good game, Collins is responsible for THAT too.

It's ONLY Evan that Collins limits! Hahahahahaha

DAMN YOU COLLINS!!


UNLEASH EVAN!!!!!!!

To the bolded part, if that's your analysis of why we shot the 2nd fewest FTA's of any team in the history of the NBA for a winning team....being beat out only by a D'Antonio team that missed an injured Amare for the season, and had much better outside shooting.....then you aren't being honest with yourself. I realize there is plenty of fickle fandom in sports forums. And the pendulum has swung wildly on Turner. But there are posts/threads/quotes/analysis galore in this forum that pretty clearly spelled out that the low FTA attempt totals had a lot to do with Collins' offense....and it wasn't because we were on the fast break.

[BChydro86]

His production, during those minutes, at both ends of the floor, is completely and utterly...ho hum.

It's fine. He's ok.

That seems to thrill you. I expected more for his third year when we drafted him.


You are satisfied with mediocrity. I am not.

Let's agree to disagree.

Your not satisfie with mediocrity, but u loved iggy as our best player....?

Im confused

[RickyPrior]

Don't be confused. Iggy was under-rated and so I set the record straight. Evan is wildly over-rated, and so I educate.

Best to just sit back, absorb, learn what to watch during the games and become the intelligent poster I know you can be.