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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosiercubsfan View Post
    No that isn't it at all. Just tired of a purely partisan poster not bothering to read anything I write before talking ****. Your not worth the time nor the effort.

    edit

    And I like your comment about not letting me get away with anything. You act as though your opinion on anything actually means anything to me. With that said I am done with you.
    Really I'm purely partisani? Am I the one who said black people credit the GOP with there civil rights. Because that was completely "disingenuous", pure spin and FAR more partisan than anything I said. That might very well Be the MOST partisan thing I have EVER heard. I mean who on the planet, who as any interaction with or knowledge of the black community at all would say that?

    An I did read what you wrote. I only commented on the part I had a problem with. I did not have a problem with the rest of you opinion. But that part I bold-ed was It's was utterly ridiculous. Like I said you know full well who's bill it was, who got the credit and what the results of that credit were, other wise you would have argued the point. I had every right to call you on that crap, so stop acting like I said something over the top. What I wrote was a perfectly reasonable response to what you said. An if you really thought it wasn't you could have argued your point, but you didn't cause it was completely disingenuous and you know it.


    FYI.......it's clear you don't know the first thing about minorities. So maybe if you stop trying to pretend like you do. I wont have to correct you.
    Last edited by jayjay33; 11-09-2012 at 10:14 PM.

  2. #17
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    jj33 and hcf

    sorry for interfering, but I think basically you are both correct. The passage of the civil rights act did have a lot of GOP backing. The main opposition was the southern democrats. But the GOP co opted the 'dixiecrats' under nixon in the 70's. IIRC, they also lost the support of the African American voters at the same time. Since than the GOP has become a party voting against pretty much all civil rights legislation.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan View Post
    jj33 and hcf

    sorry for interfering, but I think basically you are both correct. The passage of the civil rights act did have a lot of GOP backing. The main opposition was the southern democrats. But the GOP co opted the 'dixiecrats' under nixon in the 70's. IIRC, they also lost the support of the African American voters at the same time. Since than the GOP has become a party voting against pretty much all civil rights legislation.

    No problem, please feel free to voice your opinion.

    I did not have a problem with his fact about it passing. It was his "implication" that I took issue with. He dismissed the civil rights act as not having anything to do with black people voting over 90% dem by saying that if they were going to vote for someone because of the civil rights act it would be the GOP since they passed it. As if he were saying the GOP was the "real" driving force behind civil rights and there by the ones blacks credit. But we all know who blacks credit for civil rights and that as a result of that credit Kennedy and as a by product the dems have received over whelming support from the black community. So I just felt that was very disingenuous, either that or he really thinks black people credit the republicans with there civil rights. Which I find hard to believe.


    An to that point history "appears" to be repeating it self with hispanics and immgration refrom.
    Last edited by jayjay33; 11-09-2012 at 11:36 PM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I would start by not treating immigrants like criminals and saying how they just want to be takers from the system would be an excellent start.

    They should come around and support the DREAM Act. The idea of children who came here, of no fault of their own, and decide to join the Armed Forces or get an advanced degree should be rewarded with citizenship. That is the kind of people we want, regardless of ethnicity. Smarter and courageous people are always going to be a net benefit for our country and to deny those people a chance for citizenship because they were brought to this country as infants is asinine.
    Are you serious? Have you not read what they want to do, the people that have been born here, not only want themselves able to stay but their parents. I have no problem with the children who were here for years where they served in the military and such, but their parents, no, i dont care....... this would affect 11 million people and I would rather that be given to people who were born in this country. by the way, people who were not born here, and aren't citizens no matter how long have been here are criminals, that's why they call them illegals. Are unemployment rate is gonna reach depression levels soon, I am not goin to take 11 million illegals and give them jobs over american born citizen.

    Don't ask don't tell is back, not for gays in the military, Obama's policy for questions about Libya - Jay Leno

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Roses Bulls View Post
    Are you serious? Have you not read what they want to do, the people that have been born here, not only want themselves able to stay but their parents. I have no problem with the children who were here for years where they served in the military and such, but their parents, no, i dont care....... this would affect 11 million people and I would rather that be given to people who were born in this country. by the way, people who were not born here, and aren't citizens no matter how long have been here are criminals, that's why they call them illegals. Are unemployment rate is gonna reach depression levels soon, I am not goin to take 11 million illegals and give them jobs over american born citizen.
    So I take it you want the GOP to fight against amnesty, when the dems push for it?

  6. #21
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    I'd offer this post as evidence that the GOP cannot simply decide to suddenly become the Latino friendly party. The GOP has a bad rap with Hispanics because the GOP voters want them to. Good luck with the party professionals trying to change things by themselves. Or getting the congressmen who want to get re-elected to vote in favor of amnesty of some kind. The anti-hispanic bias is not something they will just give up because the economic conservatives want to get a tax cut.

    Quote Originally Posted by D Roses Bulls View Post
    Are you serious? Have you not read what they want to do, the people that have been born here, not only want themselves able to stay but their parents. I have no problem with the children who were here for years where they served in the military and such, but their parents, no, i dont care....... this would affect 11 million people and I would rather that be given to people who were born in this country. by the way, people who were not born here, and aren't citizens no matter how long have been here are criminals, that's why they call them illegals. Are unemployment rate is gonna reach depression levels soon, I am not goin to take 11 million illegals and give them jobs over american born citizen.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan View Post
    I'd offer this post as evidence that the GOP cannot simply decide to suddenly become the Latino friendly party. The GOP has a bad rap with Hispanics because the GOP voters want them to. Good luck with the party professionals trying to change things by themselves. Or getting the congressmen who want to get re-elected to vote in favor of amnesty of some kind. The anti-hispanic bias is not something they will just give up because the economic conservatives want to get a tax cut.

    Quote Originally Posted by D Roses Bulls View Post
    Are you serious? Have you not read what they want to do, the people that have been born here, not only want themselves able to stay but their parents. I have no problem with the children who were here for years where they served in the military and such, but their parents, no, i dont care....... this would affect 11 million people and I would rather that be given to people who were born in this country. by the way, people who were not born here, and aren't citizens no matter how long have been here are criminals, that's why they call them illegals. Are unemployment rate is gonna reach depression levels soon, I am not goin to take 11 million illegals and give them jobs over american born citizen.

    An they are a hell of a lot of people in the GOP who feel that way. Supporting amnesty could be a very bad career move for many republicans in congress. How many will want to take that chance?


    It's the base they have to convince first, and they dont seem to be feeling that at all.
    Last edited by jayjay33; 11-10-2012 at 01:21 AM.

  8. #23
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    the sad part is how uneducated D rose,and most Rs that watch Fox become.

    1) the idea that 11 million people are hereunder false ssn and getting free stuff is ludicrus.
    2) All of them that are working(illegally since that sems to be the linch pin) are paying taxes just like legal people.
    3) They ALL legal or illegal partcipate in the economy which has no interest in citizenship.
    4) most illegals work in industries which Americans couldnt handle.
    Farmer workers, dish washers, landscaping,laborers.No one wants those positions, and if there IS one segment of the workforce taht coulda stood some UNDERCUTTING to benefit everyone (that IS what you guys like to do, isnt it?) it would be those.
    5) the cost of deporting 11 million people would be nuts.

    We screwed up by not having a greater effort to secure the border.But you can blame yourselves(all of us) because we hired them to get out of paying living wages.

    Now , we need to shore up the border, add more security,increase penalties, and then bite the bullet on the people who are already for all intents and purposes Americans.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephkyle7 View Post
    the sad part is how uneducated D rose,and most Rs that watch Fox become.

    1) the idea that 11 million people are hereunder false ssn and getting free stuff is ludicrus.
    2) All of them that are working(illegally since that sems to be the linch pin) are paying taxes just like legal people.
    3) They ALL legal or illegal partcipate in the economy which has no interest in citizenship.
    4) most illegals work in industries which Americans couldnt handle.
    Farmer workers, dish washers, landscaping,laborers.No one wants those positions, and if there IS one segment of the workforce taht coulda stood some UNDERCUTTING to benefit everyone (that IS what you guys like to do, isnt it?) it would be those.
    5) the cost of deporting 11 million people would be nuts.

    We screwed up by not having a greater effort to secure the border.But you can blame yourselves(all of us) because we hired them to get out of paying living wages.

    Now , we need to shore up the border, add more security,increase penalties, and then bite the bullet on the people who are already for all intents and purposes Americans.

    Your right nobody wants those jobs anymore. We are all to arrogant for that now a days. We really are spoiled.

  10. #25
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    One thing that always irritates me is that many people compare immigrants today with those that came in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

    Today's immigrants seem to come here for better deal than a better way of life. Today's immigrants come here and try to recreate what they left. They not only fail to assimilate themselves into society, they do not even try. Anyone who has ever been to Miami knows what I am talking about. I suspect many areas of Los Angeles, SOCAL and Texas border cities have the same situation.

    Second largest part of the Mexican economy is money being sent home from here.

    Cities in Texas conducting all their business in Spanish.

    Businesses in Texas accepting pesos.

    The need for many city council members to be bilingual or hey can't be elected.

    Other flags flying above American flags.

    And on and on.

    That disturbs me and I can't see that getting any better. Fast forward fifty years…Arizona, New Mexico and Southern California have super majorities of Mexicans in their population. Can they secede? Will there be issues in fairness in hiring, housing etc. for whites? Will schools be taught in English? If we ever have an armed conflict with Mexico, who in our overly hispanic military fights it?

    Clearing up the illegal immigrant problem today seems so easy and huggy-feely. Just take everyone into the family. We have room and are a charitable people. However, they problems go far beyond the poor sad kids staring through the fenceline. And the politicians know it, they just don't want to talk about it.

    Anyone ever wonder why elite, educated, talented, rich Mexicans aren't coming here? Just the poor, hungry, homeless are sneaking in. And it's understandable. The real problem is that Mexico, and all the other south of the border countries, do little or nothing to take care of their own people. They just export their problems to the generous giant to the north. Why are Republicans considered cold, cruel and uncharitable in their views towards immigrants but oh so little is ever said about the miserable governments those people are running away from.

    My solution…find some way of giving amnesty to those already here, some sort of path to citizenship. You can't just deport everyone. Then slam the door shut and allow no more immigration unless you can prove you have something to add to society (and the ability to pick peaches does not count as adding to society. You need to have a real skill). We also need to take a hard line on visitors that overstay and disappear. Then the US government need to inflict pressure on these other countries to get their act together. Right now, we're just being laughed at.

    Q…What't the difference between the Mariel Boat Lift under Carter and the present influx of illegals?

    A…They now have less water to cross.

  11. #26
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    To all those people who believe that illegals perform jobs that Americans will not do………………

    Can you explain to me who did them before?

    Do you really believe that if all these illegals were not here that: lawns would not get cut, dishes would not get washed, lettuce would not get picked, sheet rock would not get moved, ditches would not get dug, floors would not get mopped?

    Do you all really believe that?

    Maybe people getting unemployment could be assigned those jobs (GASP!!!!). I'll pause here while some of you recover and catch your breath.

    …………………
    …………………
    …………………

    Some things may get more expensive if costs went up. Then again, maybe not as other expenses businesses pay to the state could be reduced if the state had less expenses taking care of social programs.

    The market always has remarkable ways of balancing itself out.

    Don't insult the American worker by assuming he will not perform menial work. People do what they have to do to survive…unless they can ride for free.

  12. #27
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    Woah it just got crazier in here.

    The Giants NL West Division chase.

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHGHCP View Post
    Woah it just got crazier in here.
    not crazier, but a good example of what problems the GOP has in dealing with the immigration issue. The position of the GOP candidates is not some random decision, but a reflection of the members of their party.

    Let's pretend the GOP and the Democrats came to an agreement on immigration reform. Passed the DREAM act, passed some form of amnesty, passed some path to citizenship for the amnestied illegals and made immigration easier for those who want to come to the US. What do you think would be the reaction in the very next GOP primary? My guess, boatloads of a New Tea Party types running for office as true conservatives, lots of current congressmen becoming ex-congressmen and a bloodbath of epic proportions in the GOP.

    The GOP has the position it has because it's what the GOP voters want. The GOP has very good party discipline, but not that good. The GOP voters want the party to take the position it does, wants the office holders to vote the way they do. When the office holders stop representing the voters in their primary, the primary voters will elect new office holders. There are lots of state reps and state senators willing to run as true conservatives against the faithless incumbents.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Roses Bulls View Post
    Are you serious? Have you not read what they want to do, the people that have been born here, not only want themselves able to stay but their parents. I have no problem with the children who were here for years where they served in the military and such, but their parents, no, i dont care....... this would affect 11 million people and I would rather that be given to people who were born in this country. by the way, people who were not born here, and aren't citizens no matter how long have been here are criminals, that's why they call them illegals. Are unemployment rate is gonna reach depression levels soon, I am not goin to take 11 million illegals and give them jobs over american born citizen.
    That has nothing to do with the DREAM Act, so I don't see why that is relevant to what I said. The DREAM Act is for the children not the parents.

    But if we insist on bringing the parents into this, let me start by breaking some news about the parents...they most likely already have a job here and do it better and for less than a citizen would be willing to do it for. Most of these "illegals" are harder working and less demanding of salary and working condition safety than people who are citizens. Those 11 million already have jobs and making their children citizens isn't going to change that, the 11 million wouldn't be here if they didn't have jobs. If you want a case study in just kicking them out and saying to Americans "take those jobs" looks like go down to Alabama. The Americans there had an opportunity to take the jobs of the illegals that left that state through what Mitt Romney described as "self deportation" and because of it Alabama lost over $1B in crop productivity. As it turns out the Americans who were willing to take those jobs were terrible at them and weren't willing to take them for more than a day or two.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    To all those people who believe that illegals perform jobs that Americans will not do………………

    Can you explain to me who did them before?

    Do you really believe that if all these illegals were not here that: lawns would not get cut, dishes would not get washed, lettuce would not get picked, sheet rock would not get moved, ditches would not get dug, floors would not get mopped?

    Do you all really believe that?

    Maybe people getting unemployment could be assigned those jobs (GASP!!!!). I'll pause here while some of you recover and catch your breath.

    …………………
    …………………
    …………………

    Some things may get more expensive if costs went up. Then again, maybe not as other expenses businesses pay to the state could be reduced if the state had less expenses taking care of social programs.

    The market always has remarkable ways of balancing itself out.

    Don't insult the American worker by assuming he will not perform menial work. People do what they have to do to survive…unless they can ride for free.
    Wow, I didn't even see this big old boat of far-right-GOP talking points.

    I know for a fact that Americans won't do those jobs. You find me Americans who are willing to do the work that illegal immigrants do for a fraction of the minimum wage. We established a minimum wage and safe working conditions because we feel that we deserve a certain level of compensation for our work and a certain amount of safety while we perform the tasks asked of us by our employers. The jobs we expect most illegals to do are below that compensation rate and below that safety limit. I know for a fact that we aren't willing to accept that low pay and safety. If we were, we would have cut our safety and pay standards years ago to compete.

    If those are the jobs that you think illegals are doing, then you clearly have seen no illegals and done absolutely no research. Most of those jobs are done by either a citizen or by a machine that requires even less pay and lower safety standards.

    The point about people on unemployment getting those jobs is not only a bad talking point but it also ignores basic economics. For the employer to give a person on unemployment that job it has to make economic sense for the employer and I'm sorry but it just doesn't make that sense.

    To the last point, this isn't about insulting the American worker. This is about pointing out what we all know are facts. The American worker is not willing to do the jobs that illegals are for the level of compensation that they will receive (because citizens are legally barred from receiving that level of compensation. Revoke the minimum wage and the standards established by the states and OSHA and MAYBE you will see Americans compete for those jobs. But much more likely, you will see Americans of all political stripes revolt on those politicians who lower those standards and compensation requirements.
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